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sbiddle
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  #128958 6-May-2008 21:50
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It's great to see that you guys have invested the $$ into supporting IP based monitoring. There are obviously going to be a few monitoring companies suddenly wonder where all their customers are going as we move towards a VoIP future for voice!

 
 
 

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drain
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  #133483 27-May-2008 08:30
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The trick is to choose a codec that doesn't use compression. The alarm's handshake tones get distorted with common VoIP audio compression. There's a good explanation at http://www.monitoringplus.co.nz/alarmvoip.php

ALARMNZ
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#133556 27-May-2008 13:13
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Hi Adrian

Sorry the "trick" is not simply the audio codec and using inbound DTMF.

The explanation of VoIP with Alarms on your web site is copied from a report that is not entirely accurate.

Sure you can play with the alarm panel communications protocol software and "tweek" it so it will work with a custom receiver and even that will not work 100% ...anything less is a problem.

All new Alarm panels are going to be IP based anyway and so why buy a PAP2 when you can use an ALARMSERVER.

Analog alarms are DEAD !!

but nice clean web site well done...good effort. Smile 
 



cyril7
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  #133561 27-May-2008 13:42
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Analog alarms are DEAD


And about bloody time.

Cyril

drain
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  #133579 27-May-2008 15:17
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Hi "Alarm Chief Engineer".

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick here.  I'm not suggesting that people should go out and buy a PAP2 (or perhaps better quality ATA) at all.  I'm trying to help by saying that it you have a VoIP line, and want to use it with your alarm, there are ways of making it work.  I agree that analogue alarms are on the way out, but not everyone can afford (or wants to) upgrade their alarm for IP reporting.

Also, please check your facts before making such bold statements.  The site is NOT copied from anywhere, and quite frankly, I'm somewhat offended by the assertion of plagiarism.  This is purely original material based on experience that shows such a system can work quite reliably if correctly configured.  

ALARMNZ
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  #133645 27-May-2008 20:04
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There are various reports out there that suggest that making alarms work with VoIP is possible AND your web site is perpetuating that myth also. I never said it was plagiarism… its just many of the statements you make sound like NEXTALARM or VoIPALARM which are just very familiar to me.  

Look your dissertation is on the problems surrounding the VoIP and Alarms was largely OK however when it comes to your “solution” you are simply guessing about something I know you have not tested thoroughly (if you had we would not be having this debate).

Here’s…a not so bold statement..
 Consider this FACT….  not a single  ALARM manufacturer in the world (the people actually make the stuff) confirms that their Alarm products will work reliably as a standard unmodified analog device within a VoIP context. Why is that ? ….because … IT DOES NOT WORK RELIABLY !! I suggest that you remove this page before you hook up some unfortunate sole who loses something valuable and the insurance company decides to sue you because a signal was lost. 


ALARMSERVERs are less than $199 or FREE when you hook up to ALARMNZ.com ...... so I do not agree people can’t afford them. Who wants to waste money on a configuring and maintaining VoIP port?  when there is a Ethernet port right there.Smile


If you want a solution call me (ask for the Chief Alarm Engineer) and I’ll help you out….no Problem (really) …you are making a good effort....well done....maybe you can show me a trick one day.Smile

[Moderator edit (MF): removed bad words. We do not accept bad words in this forum.]

freitasm
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#133649 27-May-2008 20:11
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Alarmnz I had to edit your post and remove some words. These are not acceptable in this forum.




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maverick
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  #133713 28-May-2008 06:36
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Using a higher bandwidth Codec is generally not the answer to this issue, there are a large number of factors to look at, yes latency, jitter and packet loss are major ones, the lower bandwidth codecs G729 , G723 handle these far better than the G711 codecs but do not handle inband DTMF so RFC2833 is used, however there are still a lot more factors to consider,

Firstly there a number of different Monitoring companies out there using different systems and different termination numbers, the signaling between all can and is different, wether this be in the timing factor of the DTMF being recieved or other factors this means that some may work using a G711 codec but some may not,

Also there is a large factor involved here and that is Codec selection and transcoding, this is where ITSP will change the Codec selection within there network, this can be done fairly easily within a network if you have the right equipment so even if you have a single codec selection of G711 it may not be used through the whole network, I know of a company in NZ that doers use transcoding so will be changing G711 to G729, this will effect the reliability of Alarms pure and simple.

From a WorldxChange point of view and we have been doing this for quite some time, we do not support Analog Alarms and are trying to bring awareness to the industry that under a VOIP network they should not be used, the Fiber to the Home Project has recommendations for IP Alarms only, we are not saying that it won't work but the reliability factor (this is what is really important) make Analog based alarming a non workable solution and the industry needs to be moving quickly to endorse IP Alarm solutions.


WorldxChange does not recommend or support Analog IP Alarm based system and recommends to anyone that is considering using Alarm Monitoring over our Network to contact a IP Alarm Company.



Phil Moore
Operations Manager
WorldxChange Communications




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

drain
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  #133818 28-May-2008 12:37
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Hi “Chief”.

Actually we’ve been testing several sites over the last 12 months.  Initially, we did encounter problems, as you would expect.  But, in the true spirit of Kiwi innovation, we’ve developmental solutions and implemented some nice techniques to overcome these problems.  I guess the caveat here is that we have been using our own VoIP server in most of these situations, avoiding the issues of transcending raised by Phil.  I’m by no means saying this is the best solution, just that it’s one solution, for those who wish to try it.  As soon as I get a chance, I‘ll update the web page to make this clearer.

Thanks for your input and your positive comments.  I’d welcome the opportunity to chat to you about the AlarmServer.  We’re looking into DC-09 at the moment for IP reporting, and supporting the AlarmServer would be a nice addition to that.

Fraktul
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  #133847 28-May-2008 14:06
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I think you are reffering to transcoding, you might select g.711-a but the VoIP provider may decide to transcode this within their network for various reasons. Or maybe you selected g.711-u and you get transcoding to a-law once you hit the providers PSTN gateways etc permutations & various alarm systems responses to these.

g.711 is not some panacea to analog data transmission, while it can be made to work (if the end to end network is suitable) it cannot be made to work to the level of reliability consumers have come to expect from the PSTN to date - hence ITU reccomendations and initiaves around fax and modem transmission over IP, which even then are not perfect. Native IP communication is what the industry needs to deliver and support in the future, the routes to this goal in the intrum are many.

ALARMNZ
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  #133963 28-May-2008 20:08
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There are other significant issues surrounding getting a reliable service running that have not yet surfaced and each of these impact on all approaches. (VoIP/native IP) 

The ALARMSERVER runs on the IP ALARM standard developed by ALARMNZ and is now supported by most N.Z. IP alarm manufacturers.

ALARMNZ is releasing a freeware IP ALARM receiver in a few months OR you can write your own, its very simple once you get hold of a panel.( Arrowhead are building one i understand) Call me and I’ll send over the development document as this states the "technical rules” around receiving IP ALARM. 

The DC09 issue is not resolved yet because the players are mucking the monitoring industry around, If you look closely at this standard its already 20 years old. (Yuk!!)  IP ALARM is the next step and supports DC09 as a sub structure if you could be bothered.
 

IP ALARM is XML compliant ( based on the ALARM International Inc ALARMDATA schema) and that’s the way forward for the Alarm industry worldwide.Smile


 

 


rphenix
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  #134087 29-May-2008 10:40
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kerrin: I monitor my own alarm using a "Versatile SMS Device" from http://www.itodevelopments.co.nz/. Was around $150 from memory including the phone.

It's a little black box which connects up via a serial connector to a Nokia GSM phone to send SMS alerts out to multiple numbers when one of the 4 inputs change. Connects simply to any alarm. Mine is powered by the alarm's 12v internal battery for added security.

Works great for me.


Thats a great little device didnt realise you could get something that affordable.  Think I'll wire one into my bike.

ALARMNZ
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  #134134 29-May-2008 12:57
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"Versatile SMS Device" Thats not IP solution just a project mobile device and does not give you intelligent Alarm information.

If it works for you great, but GSMALARMSERVER gives you the ability to alter the TARGET phone numbers, emails online and can have guards sent.

This mobile solution requires a SIM to maintained also and does not varify access around the clock.

Sorry this "Versatile SMS Device" is not  a clever solution just a toy if you want a better unit goto

http://www.alarmnz.com\PRODUCTS\Broadband/ALARMserver\GSMALARMserver.htm


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