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nzbnw
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#128293 3-May-2008 21:31
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johnr:
Older handsets are free!!


Arr, explains that one!

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robbypreb
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  #128294 3-May-2008 21:31
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manhinli: Wow... here are the details for the Vodafone AU unlocking:


The unlock fee is structured as follows:

  • A basic fee of $50 to unlock the handset at any time, reduced to $25 if you obtain your unlock code using Vodafone's website at vodafone.com.au/unlock.
  • Plus additional $50 to unlock you handset within six months of purchase.



At least VFs confusing website and fees isn't just restricted to NZ. It does still say that 'fees may applies', which implies that fees may also not apply in some cases.This is very vague of them. Also you can still unlock it for 1/2 the NZ price if you wait 6 months. They do also have more competition in Oz, as well as lower prices, and it is a far more competitive environment than NZ.

 
 
 
 


manhinli
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#128295 3-May-2008 21:36
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You could just compare say "fees may apply" to a bag of peanuts with "may contain nuts".




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robbypreb
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  #128297 3-May-2008 21:57
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manhinli: You could just compare say "fees may apply" to a bag of peanuts with "may contain nuts".


With VFs vagueness in their wording you could. They should say, "fee's will almost definately apply, hey we are VF afterall".

manhinli
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  #128299 3-May-2008 22:02
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More like: "Fees will apply, unless your handset was bought before [whatever date that locking was set]"

Did anyone here think about degrading pricing of the unlock over time (like a huge 0mth cost, then a lesser 6mth or 1yr charge...)
This would tie people in (basically like a contract and the disconnection fee)




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robbypreb
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  #128309 3-May-2008 23:20
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manhinli: More like: "Fees will apply, unless your handset was bought before [whatever date that locking was set]"

Did anyone here think about degrading pricing of the unlock over time (like a huge 0mth cost, then a lesser 6mth or 1yr charge...)
This would tie people in (basically like a contract and the disconnection fee)


That would be better, and looks like it is kinda what they do in Oz. However the VF Oz site is confusing to say the least on the topic. People just want a simple rule, and being able to unlock it online for a small fee would be the bester option rather than using the company VFNZ is contracting it out to. $50 is however not a small fee.

tallPete
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  #128318 4-May-2008 02:23
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Here in Australia all the Telcos do it.

I believe it is enforced in law that you have to be able to unlock your customers handset though, or state clearly that it cannot be unlocked.

I think the reason it is done is just to make it more difficult to change networks - not simply a matter of putting another SIM in. This protects the Telcos markets, stops churn.

Some phones are marketed as being locked even when they aren't.

To be honest, it seems that consumers here don't really care, the market for mobiles is very different to New Zealand. While prepay is available it is far more common to take out a contract and get the free handset deals and commit yourself to the Telco for two years.

It sounds like the NZ market is entering a competitive era, and catching up with what is happening in Australia. Vodafone in NZ are just prepping for that.

That said, think about the plus sides of it. You're about to get far better and cheaper mobile deals, and much better services on your phone. The cost and quality of service of having a mobile phone here far outweigh what is available in NZ at the moment.

Cheers,
Pete.

 
 
 
 


ninjabear
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  #128319 4-May-2008 02:54
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tallPete: Here in Australia all the Telcos do it.

I believe it is enforced in law that you have to be able to unlock your customers handset though, or state clearly that it cannot be unlocked.

I think the reason it is done is just to make it more difficult to change networks - not simply a matter of putting another SIM in. This protects the Telcos markets, stops churn.

Some phones are marketed as being locked even when they aren't.

To be honest, it seems that consumers here don't really care, the market for mobiles is very different to New Zealand. While prepay is available it is far more common to take out a contract and get the free handset deals and commit yourself to the Telco for two years.

It sounds like the NZ market is entering a competitive era, and catching up with what is happening in Australia. Vodafone in NZ are just prepping for that.

That said, think about the plus sides of it. You're about to get far better and cheaper mobile deals, and much better services on your phone. The cost and quality of service of having a mobile phone here far outweigh what is available in NZ at the moment.

Cheers,
Pete.


I'll believe it when i see it.For so many years I've been in NZ.I have never been impress by what vodafone offers

mushion22
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  #128321 4-May-2008 07:02
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I think it's a bit of an exercise in futility really. It won't really end up sitfling competition. Whats a $50 credit to Telecom/NZC to entice a customer over? $50 or even $100 credit is much cheaper for them than subsidising a new phone. They'd probably even organise the unlock for the customer! It'll just make it take an hour longer while the unlock is organised I suppose. I imagine it will end up being something like 'Sign up for a year and get a free/cheap phone, or if you BYO we give you $xx credit' just like we see with broadband.
The 'Protect the Experience' line is obviously a spin. Most Janes & Joes will believe it though and it will be a fish 'n chips wrapper before we know it.

At the end of the day VF is a big corporation, and they're going to be all corporationy. Vote with your feet, in my opinion. Viva la Parallel Import Revolution!

PaulB, if you happen to be still following this thread I would very much like you to explain further the 'Protect the Vodafone Experience' point. If you really believe the company line it'd be nice if you could be frank about it. I imagine your hands are probably pretty well tied though.

robbypreb
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  #128402 4-May-2008 14:51
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tallPete:

That said, think about the plus sides of it. You're about to get far better and cheaper mobile deals, and much better services on your phone. The cost and quality of service of having a mobile phone here far outweigh what is available in NZ at the moment.

Cheers,
Pete.


That isn't the case here in NZ. Vodafones phones that were unlocked are now selling for the same price locked. Therefore if you want an unlocked phone to use overseas, you would effectively need to pay an additional $50.

The NZ market is very different from Oz. In NZ many people use prepay, becuase call prices are so expensive. It is $1.39 per minute on normal prepay to call a phone on anopther network, which is one of the highest rates in the world. NZ is one of the biggest TXTing countries in the world, because the call charges are so high. Data charges are also excessive, about 1c per kb.

mushion22
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#128409 4-May-2008 15:13
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robbypreb: Data charges are also excessive, about 1c per kb.

They're 5c per kb on prepay here in Canada lol.
I very much doubt vodafone are going to suddenly offer better and cheaper plans and handsets just because they are locking their phones. If they were going to do that they would have done it at the same time as announcing locking to save themselves from copping flak over locking.  Yay for duopolies!

nzbnw
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  #128416 4-May-2008 15:31
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tallPete: Here in Australia all the Telcos do it.

Pete.


Don't mean to be picky, but Telstra do not lock their Next G handsets, but other than that AFAIK you are correct.

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jpollock
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  #128420 4-May-2008 15:48
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My submission to the Commerce Commission:

Vodafone has recently begun locking their mobile phones, even ones purchased without subsidy. 

The subsidy is small when compared to the value of the contract. The best ratio is on a 2yr contract @NZ$20/month, with a subsidy of NZ$80.

That means that the cost of the contract vastly outweighs the value of the subsidy.

Add to that that Vodafone will unlock the phone for NZ$50.  They don't have to lock it at all, but they will unlock it for a fee.

This means that new entrants into the GSM market will have to pay to have their customers who are switching unlock their phones.  For a carrier like Telecom with a substantial customer base, the number of customers switching in and out are probably close to equal.  Therefore, if Telecom implements device locking, it will be revenue neutral to both carriers.

However, a new entrant into the market will have large numbers of customers churning in.  This additional fee will increase their cost to acquire.  It will have a huge impact on the number of subscribers that they are able to acquire, particularly large corporate customers.

All Vodafone is trying to achieve is to make it more difficult for the consumer to switch carriers, increasing the net cost to the consumer, both immediately through the $50 fee, and long-term due to prices being kept high by additional friction in the market.

This is, essentially, a $50 fee on number portability.

Additionally, it reduces competition in the international roaming market.  Roaming fees are currently receiving wide attention from regulators in the EU.  More and more consumers are purchasing local SIM cards, and using cheap, local plans for their phone and data needs when traveling.  This is Vodafone's attempt to keep them high and avoid price competition.




johnr
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#128421 4-May-2008 16:07
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jpollock: My submission to the Commerce Commission:

Vodafone has recently begun locking their mobile phones, even ones purchased without subsidy.

The subsidy is small when compared to the value of the contract. The best ratio is on a 2yr contract @NZ$20/month, with a subsidy of NZ$80.

That means that the cost of the contract vastly outweighs the value of the subsidy.

Add to that that Vodafone will unlock the phone for NZ$50. They don't have to lock it at all, but they will unlock it for a fee.

This means that new entrants into the GSM market will have to pay to have their customers who are switching unlock their phones. For a carrier like Telecom with a substantial customer base, the number of customers switching in and out are probably close to equal. Therefore, if Telecom implements device locking, it will be revenue neutral to both carriers.

However, a new entrant into the market will have large numbers of customers churning in. This additional fee will increase their cost to acquire. It will have a huge impact on the number of subscribers that they are able to acquire, particularly large corporate customers.

All Vodafone is trying to achieve is to make it more difficult for the consumer to switch carriers, increasing the net cost to the consumer, both immediately through the $50 fee, and long-term due to prices being kept high by additional friction in the market.

This is, essentially, a $50 fee on number portability.

Additionally, it reduces competition in the international roaming market. Roaming fees are currently receiving wide attention from regulators in the EU. More and more consumers are purchasing local SIM cards, and using cheap, local plans for their phone and data needs when traveling. This is Vodafone's attempt to keep them high and avoid price competition.


What do you mean if Telecom were to lock there handsets! Where have you been for the last 2 years??

So its OK for one mobile Telco in NZ to lock its GSM based handsets for the last 2 years even when purchased out right! and the handsets can not be unlocked for any fee!!

But not OK for the other telco even though they will unlock them for a small fee!

CSI!!

TinyTim
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  #128426 4-May-2008 17:16
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nic.wise:
jpollock: Why is locking reasonable when the phone is under contract?

If there is a termination clause on the contract, why lock it down?


I guess, in a attempt to stop you getting a nice phone from provider A, which may have bad call costs, and a sim from provider B (who may not have the phone, or may charge loads for it, but their pricing is better for calls)


It also stops you from seeing out your contract with an old phone, and on-selling your subsidised phone (for a profit) to someone on a different network, in which case the operator gets no benefit out of the subsidised phone.




 

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