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# 127758 1-May-2008 23:34
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manhinli:
nzbnw: Secondly, what happens if you send a phone to repair, which is currently unlocked; will the repair agents relock them?

I hope not... that would really suck - though Vodafone said that they are "locking new handsets" to their network.


Yes, I think your correct, but what about if the repair agent chooses to replace your mobile under warranty? Locked or unlocked?

nzbnw







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  # 127761 1-May-2008 23:47
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Ahh locked phones! They're annoying. All phones here in the UK are locked if you buy them from a carrier. Thankfully there are a number of place you can buy an unlocked (and unbranded - how do people accept branded phones??) phone.

For all the noise GZ is making, I think us geeks are the least likely to be hit by this. We're aware of it. It's your mum or gran who buys a phone then wants to make a switch that it really affects, the just think they have to buy a new phone.
The rest of us know how to either buy them unlocked in the first place or find tools on the 'net. Or just get someone to do it for you.
That's one thing this news will do, give the unlock shops a lot more business!

IANAL but surely there are some legal issues around phone locking? If you buy the phone on a contract, sure, I'd believe they can lock the phone. But if you purchase a prepay phone, pay for the handset upfront, surely VF have no right to lock it? It's your phone. Or if they do lock it, they should provide the unlock code for you free of charge.





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  # 127766 2-May-2008 00:23
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Actually, why lock handsets, especially if they have been bought at full retail price???  It's certainly not going to win over any customers, and not "lock in" any customers as well....  Customers are smart, they'll know that it's unfair and feel pixxxxx if their phones are locked....

If it was bought at a discounted rate, fair enough, maybe you can argue that locking it would ensure that the on account user upholds his/her obligation...  But if they bought it at full retail price???  They bought it at full retail price BECAUSE they want flexibility and not being locked in....  And locking it would destroy this main intention!!!

Eg:  A mobile geek buys a phone at full retail price..  Why?  Cause he wants to use it for a few months, sell it on trademe, then buy a new one!  Locking it would just destroy his motivation, and discourage him to be on and buy from vodafone....

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  # 127767 2-May-2008 00:48
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Im from Norway and there we have had sim card locking for many years.
Thing is it does not really a problem. The lock is more a psycological deterrent to swich providers. The lock itself is simple to remove and in most countries I have heard about it is also completely legal. Check out a website like http://www.gsm-unlock.com/ for free unlocking software.

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  # 127788 2-May-2008 08:50
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coffeebaron: This will become an issue for overseas travelers who want to load a local SIM.

 

Or NZ users who go overseas and put in a local SIM say in Australia or UK to get over roaming charges..





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  # 127798 2-May-2008 09:07
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antoniosk: I think Vodafone has done a great job in creating a new market.

When in the UK, there was a fantastic trade in the £10 unlock code for handsets. Any gadget, done within 5 mins. It was farcical. These traders did a roaring trade.

$50 from Voda or $20 from me..... the sunday markets will be roaring.

AK



Heh this is exactly what happens here in Canada. All the providers lock their phones, but there is typically (at least here in Montreal) a store selling unlocked phones and offering an unlocking service for a fee right alongside the stores/kiosks for each provider. You don't even have to hack an iPhone yourself here, you just go to a store which looks much like a normal cell phone store and buy one and away you go.

It's quite funny hearing the Spin from PaulB. I remember when he used to write for Computerworld - he would write the FryUp as I recall (now done by Juha Saarinen) that would poke the micky out of VF & TNZ and their spins. Juha, please don't give into the dark side in the same way :P There will be precious few left to provide me with Friday entertainment otherwise!

I am interested to see what happens in NZ when phones like the iPhone and similar (eg google's Android platform) come into the main stream where the cell company basically becomes a data provider, and content is found outside their network, similar to ISPs.

They might have to compete on.... good service and network quality :O

I'm a bit uncertain about locking. I can see the argument about keeping settings etc under their control - similar to how some VoIP companies lock down the otherwise standard equipment so you can't tinker and bust their network. However with cellphones I would agree that it's just another revenue stream. The only way it would put customers off is if VF/Retailers were forced to put big warning labels on the packaging or something. Otherwise Jane & Joe Bloggs won't know what it means untill they trundle off to Telecom or NZC to be told they have to fork out, in which case it's effectively a churn fee. Just like ISPs charge each other when a customer switches (or at least they used to, not sure if that's still common practice), and number porting etc etc. It won't really stop them - TNZ or NZC will just give them $50 credit which sounds fair even though you can't really compare credit to cash quite so directly. $50 credit is an easy incentive for a cell company to give someone to switch to them. I wouldn't be surprised if NZC and Telecom follow suit in fact.

I doubt that they really care about the Vodafone Experience. If they did they'd make the experience better to attract customers, rather than force customers to be locked into it.



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# 127805 2-May-2008 09:20
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mushion22: They might have to compete on.... good service and network quality :O


Internal memo found in the rubish bin outside the main Big Telco building: "Oh no, we are doomed! Users now want good service and network quality"...




 
 
 
 


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  # 127809 2-May-2008 09:33
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Well, are we all going to keep our old GSM phones or make a killing on Trademe?

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# 127810 2-May-2008 09:33
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Heh. I would have to agree with your secret meeting theory.
Marketer: "Oh no we are losing customers"
Network Dude: "Ok, lets stop making bad decisions and fix our broken systems"
Marketer: "Quit that jibber jabber nonsense! I don't understand what your TCP/ITDRM.R.E.S.P.E.C.T. proto-whatsits are. Quick quick fire ze missiles! add a churn fee to make sure that if we make less, they make less!"
PaulB: "Sup guys?"
Marketer: *Pleased Evil Grin* Network Dude: *Knocking head against wall*
PaulB: "Oh god. What this time?"
Marketer: "World domi.. errr... We have a fantastic idea we want you lie... errr... share... with our slave... errr... customers."

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  # 127817 2-May-2008 09:46
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freitasm:
mushion22: They might have to compete on.... good service and network quality :O


Internal memo found in the rubish bin outside the main Big Telco building: "Oh no, we are doomed! Users now want good service and network quality"...


Heh, that tickled my funny bone. Funny thing about the memo is that they genuinely didn't realise thats what users want... Go big tobacco, er, I mean telecommunications...




Twitter: @nztechfreak
Blogs: HeadphoNZ.org


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  # 127824 2-May-2008 10:11
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mushion22:
I'm a bit uncertain about locking. I can see the argument about keeping settings etc under their control - similar to how some VoIP companies lock down the otherwise standard equipment so you can't tinker and bust their network. However with cellphones I would agree that it's just another revenue stream. The only way it would put customers off is if VF/Retailers were forced to put big warning labels on the packaging or something. Otherwise Jane & Joe Bloggs won't know what it means untill they trundle off to Telecom or NZC to be told they have to fork out, in which case it's effectively a churn fee. Just like ISPs charge each other when a customer switches (or at least they used to, not sure if that's still common practice), and number porting etc etc. It won't really stop them - TNZ or NZC will just give them $50 credit which sounds fair even though you can't really compare credit to cash quite so directly. $50 credit is an easy incentive for a cell company to give someone to switch to them. I wouldn't be surprised if NZC and Telecom follow suit in fact.


The big difference I see here though (and I assume you are referring to say WorldXchange) is that they VoIP providers limit the devices that you can bring onto their network - they don't care where you source them from, just what they are. They then lock the settings down while you are a customer, and then will release those settings if you wish to leave. SIM unlocking is all about keeping the device on our network - we want you to buy it from us and stay with us. What WxC is doing with VoIP is "protecting the customer experience". What SIM locking is doing is trying to tie me to a provider long term, by increasing the barriers to change (again).



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# 127827 2-May-2008 10:19
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destined: The big difference I see here though (and I assume you are referring to say WorldXchange) is that they VoIP providers limit the devices that you can bring onto their network - they don't care where you source them from, just what they are. They then lock the settings down while you are a customer, and then will release those settings if you wish to leave. SIM unlocking is all about keeping the device on our network - we want you to buy it from us and stay with us. What WxC is doing with VoIP is "protecting the customer experience". What SIM locking is doing is trying to tie me to a provider long term, by increasing the barriers to change (again).


Exactly. WorldxChange guarantees the service works with those settings but the device is yours. You just need to do a reset and it is all free.

Vodafone guarantees the device works only with their network. And you have to pay to be free. They are trying to make it harder for people to switch services.




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  # 127830 2-May-2008 10:29
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Im sure many customers will buy parallel handsets now

I certainly will be getting more customers buying from me as the mobiles I import from nokia,sonyericsson,motorola hk,samsung etc are not locked

We are buying a handset not buying vodafone why do we want a lock handset?

The vodafone logo and background just annoys me.Its a pyschological feeling that just  makes me annoy.Im buying a Nokia Mobile not a vodafone mobile.Why should it be locked?


I have a w960i thats imported from Sony Ericsson Hk that supports vodafone live.Not branded in anywhere

now... What kind of customer experience will i be experiencing if I buy it thru here vodafone nz at like $1500 when its $800nz in hong kong?

The experience of me vomiting blood spending an extra $500?

I will keep an eye on the mobile pricing at the vodafone store but I think you'll find alot of annoyed customers

Remember.We are buying a Nokia or a Sony Ericsson handset not a vodafone one.


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  # 127832 2-May-2008 10:33
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brentbart:
ninjabear: lol... but to be honest other mobile services from other countries are better than vodafone NZ.

more games.more variety of handset


Not sure of the relevance of that comment, you might as well start talking about the weather other countries have. Will NZ ever have the competition of say the USA ... sure, when we have an additional 500 million people. I understand that every other Vodafone network worldwide locks the devices to their network so, using your logic, isn't the mobile service offered now standard so a good thing.


I think if you compare to a country with the same population as NZ you'll find they are better off

Sure don't compare but remember other people in other countries compare too.

Humans compare and chooses the best lifestyle that suits them

Things wont improve if there's no comparing .

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  # 127833 2-May-2008 10:35
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Vodafone mobiles are already high enough.Locking the mobiles mean more bling bling for me!

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