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99 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1861776 10-Sep-2017 11:35
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My Clear one came through (I have the account checked via PopPeeper), my Paradise ones were in the webmail spam folder.

 

 


118 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 24


  Reply # 1861777 10-Sep-2017 11:37
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michaelmurfy:

 

I got one for an old Clear account I didn't know I had. SPF and DKIM fail on the email... It got sent to Spam:

 

 

Talking about SPF, this new forwarding is going to not work for people like me who have strict SPF records for my domain. Vodafone will forward the mail on to the new server, and that server will drop the e-mail because Vodafone's SMTP servers are not in the SPF for my domain. Was discussed in the NZNOG mailing list a few months ago, where Spark dumped mail that failed strict SPF checks. Is there any viable workaround for the issue?


 
 
 
 


6804 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3135

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  Reply # 1861784 10-Sep-2017 11:58
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stinger:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

I got one for an old Clear account I didn't know I had. SPF and DKIM fail on the email... It got sent to Spam:

 

 

Talking about SPF, this new forwarding is going to not work for people like me who have strict SPF records for my domain. Vodafone will forward the mail on to the new server, and that server will drop the e-mail because Vodafone's SMTP servers are not in the SPF for my domain. Was discussed in the NZNOG mailing list a few months ago, where Spark dumped mail that failed strict SPF checks. Is there any viable workaround for the issue?

 

That is bad - really the only workaround is to make noise to ensure that Vodafone do it properly. I had forwarding set up but looking at both the Clear mailbox and my Google Mail inbox it appears they've missed SPF and this this failed DKIM which sent it to spam on both mailboxes.

 

Their domain rules stipulate that if SPF and DKIM fail then the mail must be forged - they don't have it set to softfail (which may end up in peoples inboxes) and instead they do a full fail.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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413 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 34


  Reply # 1861954 10-Sep-2017 20:07
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Plan to help out a friend set up his gmail account and Vodafone forwarding.

 

Following the email forwarding set up link, how quickly does forwarding take to become effective?

 

Is there a good time of day to do this for speedy forwarding completion?





Gordy

1543 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 81


  Reply # 1861963 10-Sep-2017 20:46
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Firstly, many thanks to Mike for being a direct pipeline to Vodafone for us.

 

Some questions -

 

1:  Once Forwarding has been setup and active, and then subsequent emails using Clear addresses has dropped to nil, can a user issue a cease or delete account order? Presumably all the recent spam and junk will still come down the VF/Clear line until Forwarding has been stopped?

 

2:  What happens with those accounts that currently already have a Forwarding action operating?  Will those actions continue, or do users have to also request Forwarding anew?

 

3:  Will Account Information still be accessible after November 30th, e.g. https://sso.clear.net.nz/clearnet-selfservice/login ?


13322 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1587


  Reply # 1861968 10-Sep-2017 20:51
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michaelmurfy:

 

stinger:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

I got one for an old Clear account I didn't know I had. SPF and DKIM fail on the email... It got sent to Spam:

 

 

Talking about SPF, this new forwarding is going to not work for people like me who have strict SPF records for my domain. Vodafone will forward the mail on to the new server, and that server will drop the e-mail because Vodafone's SMTP servers are not in the SPF for my domain. Was discussed in the NZNOG mailing list a few months ago, where Spark dumped mail that failed strict SPF checks. Is there any viable workaround for the issue?

 

That is bad - really the only workaround is to make noise to ensure that Vodafone do it properly. I had forwarding set up but looking at both the Clear mailbox and my Google Mail inbox it appears they've missed SPF and this this failed DKIM which sent it to spam on both mailboxes.

 

Their domain rules stipulate that if SPF and DKIM fail then the mail must be forged - they don't have it set to softfail (which may end up in peoples inboxes) and instead they do a full fail.

 

 

 

 

Can't you setup a rule with your email provider, so it doesn't automatically go to spam? Basically it is the type of problem that either email provider could blame each others systems


352 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1862039 11-Sep-2017 07:23
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mattwnz:

 

Can't you setup a rule with your email provider, so it doesn't automatically go to spam? Basically it is the type of problem that either email provider could blame each others systems

 

 

Very few mail providers give you control over how messages are handled.

 

SPF in particular is designed to allow the sending domain to specify how mail sent through its or other servers should be handled. It is therefore imperative that Vodafone open up those domains to being sent through other systems, and not use flags to indicate the messages should be rejected or marked, which may in turn result in the mail silently disappearing or being hidden from users by default. Strict rules should _never_ apply to ISP e-mail, as people would routinely be using those addresses when on other networks. The only time strict rules should ever apply is when remote users access a private mail system for sending (usually authenticated, on port 587).

 

DKIM is less of an issue, as a number of messages will fail DKIM checks after passing through intermediary systems. Not having DKIM however, is an issue for GMail, and they practically forced me to implement it on my server in order to not have all my mail flagged as spam. The only control with DKIM is specifying simple or relaxed canonicalisation of message headers and bodies... neither of which do much to improve compatibility between systems, as the difference is only in the handling of white space and header case. I.e. A certain number of messages are going to fail irrespective of how the sending system is configured, but if you don't have it, expect mail to considered spam by Google.


1212 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 244


  Reply # 1862180 11-Sep-2017 10:42
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"Will Vodafone also forward emails that it would normally mark as spam? 

 

Yes. Vodafone has suggested customers switch to Google Gmail or Microsoft Outlook and says they should filter out the spam while letting legitimate messages through."

 

so, in theory, vodafone forwards spams.
Will that eventually see vodafone blacklisted or auto added to spam filters ?

 

 


1 post

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1862190 11-Sep-2017 11:00
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Received email today 11-9-17 emails to close

 

 

 

This sucks......Ive been a ihug member for 20 years or so only in the last few years paying my base fee to keep the ihug email's

 

and to keep my web page open

 

20 years is a long time .....Will my web page go also ?


118 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 24


  Reply # 1862192 11-Sep-2017 11:05
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SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

It is therefore imperative that Vodafone open up those domains to being sent through other systems, and not use flags to indicate the messages should be rejected or marked, which may in turn result in the mail silently disappearing or being hidden from users by default.

 

 

This is something that Vodafone cannot do. I host the DNS records for my domain, and my mail server is not hosted by Vodafone. When Vodafone auto forward an e-mail I send to a @ihug/clear/paradise/.. address to say Google's SMTP server, Google will be quite within their right to drop my e-mail to the floor as Vodafone's forwarding server does not meet my strict SPF record.

 

 


487 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 180

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Vodafone NZ

  Reply # 1862208 11-Sep-2017 11:11
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Thanks for the feedback, will ensure that forwarding adheres to best practice.




Channel Manager, Help & Support @ Vodafone NZ


352 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1862209 11-Sep-2017 11:12
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stinger:

 

 

 

This is something that Vodafone cannot do. I host the DNS records for my domain, and my mail server is not hosted by Vodafone. When Vodafone auto forward an e-mail I send to a @ihug/clear/paradise/.. address to say Google's SMTP server, Google will be quite within their right to drop my e-mail to the floor as Vodafone's forwarding server does not meet my strict SPF record.

 

 

This won't be an issue if Vodafone implements remailing rather than just forwarding the message on. That way, the SPF record would be Vodafone's, as SPF is based on the envelope, not the message itself.


70 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7


  Reply # 1862259 11-Sep-2017 11:57
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SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

stinger:

 

 

 

This is something that Vodafone cannot do. I host the DNS records for my domain, and my mail server is not hosted by Vodafone. When Vodafone auto forward an e-mail I send to a @ihug/clear/paradise/.. address to say Google's SMTP server, Google will be quite within their right to drop my e-mail to the floor as Vodafone's forwarding server does not meet my strict SPF record.

 

 

This won't be an issue if Vodafone implements remailing rather than just forwarding the message on. That way, the SPF record would be Vodafone's, as SPF is based on the envelope, not the message itself.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that counter intuitive? The whole premise for the closure is their desire to cut email loose. This suggestion is that they'll keep hosting alive, just WE won't have access.

 

 

 

The issue raised over SPF and DKIM are valid, and I'm keen to learn how this will be resolved.


352 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1862292 11-Sep-2017 12:14
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pristle:

 

me: 

 

This won't be an issue if Vodafone implements remailing rather than just forwarding the message on. That way, the SPF record would be Vodafone's, as SPF is based on the envelope, not the message itself.

 

 

Isn't that counter intuitive? The whole premise for the closure is their desire to cut email loose. This suggestion is that they'll keep hosting alive, just WE won't have access.

 

 

 

Vodafone have to keep some of the SMTP infrastructure in place to support forwarding, irrespective of the implementation. The only difference with remailing is how the outbound SMTP session presents the message to the remote server.

 

And yes, all they are really doing is disabling POP/IMAP access to mail. Any gain in performance would likely come primarily from disabling spam filtering, which they will rely on upstream providers to do.


487 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 180

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Vodafone NZ

  Reply # 1862351 11-Sep-2017 14:14
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Couple of points to mention here

 

 

 

1) Forwarded emails will be filtered for spam before being forwarded.

 

2) Domains hosted with VF with emails attached those are not affected by 30 November and we'll contact individual customers about those.

 

3) If you've not received your email from Vodafone about forwarding, please check the webmail version of your service, and in there check the spam folder to see if your email is there.

 

 

 

If you check and nothing there and you're expecting an email, then message me with the details and I'll sort it out for you. Likewise, if you've got to set up forwarding and for whatever reason it's failed, again let me know.

 

Cheers





Channel Manager, Help & Support @ Vodafone NZ


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