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Uber Geek
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Topic # 24122 15-Jul-2008 19:35
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All I would like to do is play AA and kick the Aussies...

Tracing route to 202.60.72.101 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     3 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.2.1
  2    18 ms    46 ms    20 ms  (This is where my uber cool static IP goes)
  3    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  ae0-840.ie4.telstraclear.net [203.167.223.114]
  4    24 ms    21 ms    25 ms  ge-1-2-0-843.ie1.telstraclear.net [218.101.61.105]
  5    24 ms    28 ms    26 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
  6   145 ms   150 ms   145 ms  so.jb.wils.telstraclear.net [203.98.42.66]
  7   176 ms   179 ms   194 ms  157.130.245.21
  8   176 ms   178 ms   177 ms  0.so-2-0-0.XL1.LAX1.ALTER.NET [152.63.53.58]
  9   242 ms   246 ms   237 ms  0.so-7-0-0.XL3.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.21]
 10   251 ms   239 ms   242 ms  GigabitEthernet6-0-0.GW18.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.22.225]
 11   222 ms   224 ms   231 ms  157.130.1.150
 12   228 ms   233 ms   230 ms  so-0-0-0.sjc11.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.80.89]
 13   300 ms   308 ms   311 ms  asianetcom-gw.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.66.242]
 14   267 ms   262 ms   265 ms  po5-0.cr1.syd1.asianetcom.net [202.147.40.137]
 15   263 ms   265 ms   265 ms  gi1-0.gw2.syd1.asianetcom.net [202.147.40.178]
 16   263 ms   293 ms   276 ms  Pacific-Internet.gw2.syd1.asianetcom.net [203.192.166.150]
 17   289 ms   283 ms   284 ms  g5-2.switch2.bne.pacific.net.au [210.23.140.194]
 18   272 ms   273 ms   275 ms  vl64.switch2.bne.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.250]
 19   293 ms   284 ms   287 ms  g1-hs.core-bne.servers.net.au [203.143.242.154]
 20   285 ms   289 ms   281 ms  202.60.72.101

Trace complete.

So we go, NZ, USA, Germany and then AUS.

Why does this go right around the world to get to Australia?


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137 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 148258 15-Jul-2008 19:51
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*cough* peering *cough*

53 posts

Master Geek
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Reply # 148279 15-Jul-2008 20:34
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We've got similar issues.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=44&TopicId=22547

It is rather annoying

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 148286 15-Jul-2008 20:46
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That path didn't go through Germany.  It went to the USA - admittedly the East coast! - and back.

Peering isn't to blame; that probably looks like the best path from TelstraClear's perspective.  BGP does not convey geographical location in NLRI updates.

A gentle prod to the network engineers at TCL would probably help fix the path up - at least for the outbound.  Inbound can be trickier to fix.

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Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 148289 15-Jul-2008 20:49
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Funny that ISPs say that the reason for low caps is that international traffic to the US is expensive (because of its distance), yet apparently it's cheaper to go via the US to Australia than directly to Australia, which is very close... So TelstraClear - why is it so expensive to go directly to Aus? I thought they even had thier own dedicated undersea cable? I guess it's a peering issue, as JDNZ says... hmm maybe they should be a responsible ISP and peer, rather than destroying international latency. Hah, who am I kidding? Keep on pinching those pennies TelstraClear, your gamers and business customers REALLY appreciate it!



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  Reply # 148291 15-Jul-2008 20:53
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PenultimateHop: That path didn't go through Germany.  It went to the USA - admittedly the East coast! - and back.

Peering isn't to blame; that probably looks like the best path from TelstraClear's perspective.  BGP does not convey geographical location in NLRI updates.

A gentle prod to the network engineers at TCL would probably help fix the path up - at least for the outbound.  Inbound can be trickier to fix.


Can you please explain that, or point me somewhere I can understand what you said exactly?

disclaimer, I know where the east coast of USA is, and how to contact TCL.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 148292 15-Jul-2008 20:53
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Actually, I just had a look at this in a little more detail, and it's pretty deliberate traffic engineering by PacNet.

BGP's most rudimentary "best path selection" is known as AS Path length.  The shorter the length, the better, based on counting hops.  This can be overriden with other selection hammers (notably localpref) but we'll ignore that for the time being.

TelstraClear probably sees two paths:

9901 701 3257 10026 7543 24238 24238 24238
9901 4637 1221 7543 7543 7543 7543 7543 24238 24238 24238

As you can see, the second path is much longer.  Now, let's decode those paths by who the AS numbers belong to:

First path:
AS9901 - TelstraClear transit AS
AS701 - UUNET (part of MCI) North America
AS3257 - Tiscali
AS10026 - PacNet (formerly AsiaNetcom) primary transit AS
AS7543 - PacNet (formerly Pacific Internet) legacy Pacific Internet AS
AS24238 - HostingShop, the originator of the 202.60.72.0/24 prefix.  Note they are prepending (adding their AS to the path) two times, this is a rudimentary mechanism to reduce path preference.

Second path:
AS9901 - TelstraClear transit AS
AS4637 - Reach AS
AS1221 - Telstra Australia
AS7543 - PacNet (formerly Pacific Internet) legacy Pacific Internet AS.  Note the prepends here, to depreference the path via Telstra as much as possible.
AS24238 - as above.

This is MOST LIKELY why TCL is prefering the path via the USA over the Australian path.




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 148685 16-Jul-2008 22:57
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I have the exactly same problem, and Pacnet have been advised by both Telstraclear and one of HostingShop's customers (Cubos) that the routing instructions need to be corrected.   It seems that Pacnet do not want to correct the problem - apparently this has been an issue for several months.

If Pacnet don't want to fix the problem, what are the workarounds that Telstraclear can reasonably employ with their own equipment?

Oh, and this appears to be an issue only for Testra cable customers - why would that be?

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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 150064 21-Jul-2008 23:32
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Delighted to report the route now seems back to normal - direct NZ<->AUS for the Pacnet ips I frequent (Cubo gaming servers on 118.127.5.x) - no U.S. tiki tours :)

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