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210 posts

Master Geek
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Reply # 151174 25-Jul-2008 08:46
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Further to my previous post, as Maurcio rightly points out, there is massive void for Local New Zealand content, especially with what people actually want, "Top Quality/High Definition - Video on Demand" & also the ability to download DVD's (for those who haven't moved onto HD) & also HD Movies - on Demand, perhaps a good idea would be that Vodafone partner with a company who can offer these products, to coincide with the release of VDSL2+, now that would be a REAL buy in to this product, for those lucky enough to get it!



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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 151177 25-Jul-2008 08:53

marmel: Mmmm....Imagine if question 2 & 3 had been asked about the iphone a couple of months before the launch. Would it have had any impact on the data plans available?

Anyway, good idea to test the water for a new product although as you pointed out Phil having to be within 1km of the exchange seriously limits the customer base. I have vf broadband but live about 4km from the exchange so have to be satisfied with my 3.2mb down Frown



That's what's known as "sub loop unbundling" and the Commerce Commission is still working out the detail on who gets access to what and pricing etc... nothing we can do till that is delivered.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 151615 26-Jul-2008 16:29
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1: Is that distance to the exchange going to be a limiting factor for you as a customer?
A: For me personally it would. Even in affluent areas this will be an issue. However once the product becomes established new home owners may factor this into their decision.

2: How much would the market bear in terms of price for speed? Is more speed worth paying more for?
A: Some users would benefit from increased speed though only those with relatively competent computer knowledge that are aware of the new capabilities. This is a very multi-tiered question and requires much thought as to whom would take up and use the service. My instinct tells me that there will always be a premium market who want the best of the best. Unfortunately the general public has become accustomed to current network speeds and adjusted usage and needs accordingly so uptake will be slow but as new networks and business upgrade and start they may plan to take advantage of the higher speeds. Again however, the exchange distance is a hurdle.

3: How much data do you need with a 50/20 service?
A: I believe when talking about a power use, they would require a huge amount of data (otherwise what is the point of increased speeds?). I wouldn't recommend an uncapped plan, but rather at least a 50GB segment and ideally 100GB with similar options to purchase 'chunks' as needed. It would be wise to make sure the local exchange can handle this and not become clogged as when Telecom opened the lines to 'unlimited speeds' and most users noticed a decrease.

Bonus question: I hear a lot of talk about how the only solution to NZ's broadband problems is fibre. Given these speeds what would you use the service for (and what couldn't you do with this that you would be doing with fibre to the home)?
A: Quite honestly I'm more than happy with my 300kb down and 50kb (ish) up speeds and I think 98% of users are content at the moment. When on demand video becomes available and DVD rentals online more popular you'll see a huge surge in popularity for these services. There's a catch 22 at present whereby the speeds aren't available so no one makes the services available but the services aren't available so no one upgrades the speeds due to low demand. I would love to be able to rent movies online and download a new computer game instead of having to physically purchase it. Furthermore, browsing the internet at even higher speeds and having the odd download complete in half the time would also be a big plus to me. Torrent users (aka bandwidth hogs) will use as much data as you put in front of them so once again it's important to ensure they don't overload the network.

Thanks for the update and I appreciate the chance to give some input into a product in design. Is there any way to increase this 1km distance factor in the future? This I see as the main hurdle to customer subscription.



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  Reply # 151635 26-Jul-2008 17:43

JoeBloggs: 1: Is that distance to the exchange going to be a limiting factor for you as a customer?
A: For me personally it would. Even in affluent areas this will be an issue. However once the product becomes established new home owners may factor this into their decision.

2: How much would the market bear in terms of price for speed? Is more speed worth paying more for?
A: Some users would benefit from increased speed though only those with relatively competent computer knowledge that are aware of the new capabilities. This is a very multi-tiered question and requires much thought as to whom would take up and use the service. My instinct tells me that there will always be a premium market who want the best of the best. Unfortunately the general public has become accustomed to current network speeds and adjusted usage and needs accordingly so uptake will be slow but as new networks and business upgrade and start they may plan to take advantage of the higher speeds. Again however, the exchange distance is a hurdle.

3: How much data do you need with a 50/20 service?
A: I believe when talking about a power use, they would require a huge amount of data (otherwise what is the point of increased speeds?). I wouldn't recommend an uncapped plan, but rather at least a 50GB segment and ideally 100GB with similar options to purchase 'chunks' as needed. It would be wise to make sure the local exchange can handle this and not become clogged as when Telecom opened the lines to 'unlimited speeds' and most users noticed a decrease.

Bonus question: I hear a lot of talk about how the only solution to NZ's broadband problems is fibre. Given these speeds what would you use the service for (and what couldn't you do with this that you would be doing with fibre to the home)?
A: Quite honestly I'm more than happy with my 300kb down and 50kb (ish) up speeds and I think 98% of users are content at the moment. When on demand video becomes available and DVD rentals online more popular you'll see a huge surge in popularity for these services. There's a catch 22 at present whereby the speeds aren't available so no one makes the services available but the services aren't available so no one upgrades the speeds due to low demand. I would love to be able to rent movies online and download a new computer game instead of having to physically purchase it. Furthermore, browsing the internet at even higher speeds and having the odd download complete in half the time would also be a big plus to me. Torrent users (aka bandwidth hogs) will use as much data as you put in front of them so once again it's important to ensure they don't overload the network.

Thanks for the update and I appreciate the chance to give some input into a product in design. Is there any way to increase this 1km distance factor in the future? This I see as the main hurdle to customer subscription.

Sorry, VDSL2 is limited in this regard. VDSL2+ or other variants may address this but it's a factor of the physics involved. Wikipedia has a good article for beginners who want to know more about VDSL2.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


355 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 151653 26-Jul-2008 18:53
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Cheers, interesting read. It may be worth waiting until you have VDSL2+ then.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 151735 27-Jul-2008 10:33
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JoeBloggs : 1: Is that distance to the exchange going to be a limiting factor for you as a customer?
A: For me personally it would. Even in affluent areas this will be an issue. However once the product becomes established new home owners may factor this into their decision.

2: How much would the market bear in terms of price for speed? Is more speed worth paying more for?
A: Some users would benefit from increased speed though only those with relatively competent computer knowledge that are aware of the new capabilities. This is a very multi-tiered question and requires much thought as to whom would take up and use the service. My instinct tells me that there will always be a premium market who want the best of the best. Unfortunately the general public has become accustomed to current network speeds and adjusted usage and needs accordingly so uptake will be slow but?as new networks and business upgrade and start?they may?plan to take advantage of the higher?speeds. Again however, the exchange distance is a hurdle.

3: How much data do you need with a 50/20 service?
A: I believe when talking about a power use, they would require a?huge amount of data (otherwise what is the point of increased speeds?). I wouldn't recommend an uncapped plan, but rather at least a 50GB segment and ideally 100GB with similar options to purchase 'chunks' as needed. It would be wise to make sure the local exchange can handle this and not become clogged as when Telecom opened the lines to 'unlimited speeds' and most users noticed a decrease.

Bonus question: I hear a lot of talk about how the only solution to NZ's broadband problems is fibre. Given these speeds what would you use the service for (and what couldn't you do with this that you would be doing with fibre to the home)?
A: Quite honestly I'm more than happy with my 300kb down and 50kb (ish) up speeds and I think 98% of users are content at the moment. When on demand video becomes available and DVD rentals online more popular you'll see a huge surge in popularity for these services. There's a catch 22 at present whereby the speeds aren't available so no one makes the services available but the services aren't available so no one upgrades the speeds due to low demand. I would love to be able to rent movies online and download a new computer game instead of having to physically purchase it. Furthermore, browsing the internet at even higher speeds and having the odd download complete in half the time would also be a big plus to me. Torrent users (aka bandwidth hogs) will use as much data as you put in front of them so once again it's important to ensure they don't overload the network.
So tell me JB, what research leads you to believe that "98% percent of users are content at the moment"? I can assue you, this statement could not be further from the truth, from the numerous articles I have read & the many people I have spoken too. New Zealanders have been deprived for so long, they simply don't know what they are missing out on, a trip to overseas countries, will soon make you realise how backward we really are & what we are missing out on, I suggest you take a holiday to Europe or Korea or Japan, then come back here & tell us all how 98% of users are content! Fibre is the only way, trying to make copper stretch out past it's used by date, is simply a waste of money IMHO, invest the coin into Fibre, perhaps with all Telcos, collectively, to create an Open Access Network, which has been taked about & then go from there. Furthermore, 150-200GB of Data, as I mentioned is the best way to go if VF are intent on dragging the copper usage to it's death, 50-100GB does not cut the mustard at all.

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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 152041 28-Jul-2008 12:54
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Zimsar10: they simply don't know what they are missing out on


You just invalidated your own statement. We ARE lagging behind but we DON'T know about it as a population. Most people (average, normal people - not those involved in the tech sector) are content with their speeds and data limits because they simply don't know any better. They want to check their emails and browse Trademe and their internet connection lets them do this with sufficient speed. Are you aware that around 40% of our active internet users are still on dial up? They're quite content despite broadband availability. I have experience in this area and I'm well aware of potential user uptake. This is a niche product in and of itself and further limited by the 1km radius. However 2% of our active internet market is still a very profitable potential group and shouldn't be discounted. I was stating my opinion (as requested), not discouraging the product as a whole.


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  Reply # 152060 28-Jul-2008 14:09
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sounds very nice, but I think there needs to be realistic data rates at hand.  How much is realistic, I don't know.  100GB is being bandied about, but if things like IPTV start coming in, this will be gone in no time.

Especially provisions for making better use of this speed nationally (ie not using the Southern Cross cable).  I am sensible enough to realise that nothing comes for free, so unlimited data is unrealistic.  But something such as peering agreements with people providing VOD, streaming services (Sky, TVNZ etc), online backup etc would make this worth it.

Otherwise once again, it's like having dragster and only being able to use it in your drive.  You can start enjoying it, and before you know it, the cap is gone.

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  Reply # 152110 28-Jul-2008 15:51
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I cant even stream a 720p clip off vimeo at the moment - far from content here.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 152200 28-Jul-2008 21:06
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What this country really needs is what Wellington already has, their MAN Metropolitan Area Network. Perhaps instead of just basing the pricing model on xGB Data a month, you bring back free/cheaper MAN traffic. 

I think a lot of this early adopter market is ready for creating and using large Metro data. 

Think Video Production, backups, IPTV/Terminal/File/Business Servers. 

 





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Geek


  Reply # 152449 29-Jul-2008 16:17

well according to Telecom (ex customer) im 2.7k's from exchange A, however Vodafone say im on the neighbouring exchange which i'll call exchange B though they say they dont have access to the length from exchange, so as assumption would have it, i would be on an adsl1 port and as they also said only Telecom can provide that information.

My point is, im less than 1km from exchange B but the above is of two parties who can't agree to what exchange im on, which has been given by support and provisioning teams at both ISP's.

I've worked in the ISP work field and I.T industry for sometime and in Aussie too, seems to me NZ should follow but go even beyond what other ISP's did around Telstra AUS, not just resell of copper cables that are 40+ years old looping within POP's.

Half the reason i joined up to Vodafone is because Telecom couldn't handle how many downloads i did on go large and limited me to 3-4 months of 64kbps everyday, every hour, which was illegal but they did house cleaning to disprove that in court, so VDSL2+ would need as others mention at least 50gb if not 100gb quota schemes or else you'll be shaped within 2 days of downloading movies etc.


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Geek


  Reply # 152848 30-Jul-2008 22:58
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Telecom admitted a few times that the accuracy of their information is not 100%. The easiest way to tell the distance (roughly) is to check the attenuation. Divide that by 13 and with high likelihood that's your distance in km from your DSLAM.

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Geek


  Reply # 153641 2-Aug-2008 18:13

well then i guess i have to use the formula

Atten: 40
Distance: 2.747

margin to divide by 14.56

no more for me to add :)

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