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Topic # 24586 28-Jul-2008 18:10
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Hi,

I've tried logging a few faults regarding this but have had no results... could someone at WXCH please tell me why I'm unable to receive calls from telstra clients to my 09 440XXXX ported number.

Thanks
Barry




Barry Murphy
ISPMap - New Zealand ISP map
Vibe Communications LTD - Business ISP and Wholesale Carrier



Any comments made by myself don't reflect the views of my employer, they are mine and mine alone

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  Reply # 152170 28-Jul-2008 19:34
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This should be logged with Telstraclear as they are the A party starting the call

Looks like WXC is the B party and its best not to work backwards in a fault like this.




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  Reply # 152178 28-Jul-2008 20:01
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yeh i tried that, however because I don't have an account with them they wanted nothing to do with me... The 3 example A partys were not interested in waiting in a support queue for an hr just so they could call me, they rather call my mobile, however this makes me wonder how many others out there have issues calling me.






Barry Murphy
ISPMap - New Zealand ISP map
Vibe Communications LTD - Business ISP and Wholesale Carrier



Any comments made by myself don't reflect the views of my employer, they are mine and mine alone

 
 
 
 


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WorldxChange

  Reply # 152266 29-Jul-2008 06:12
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Ask your clients that are having trouble ringing you to ring Telstra/Clear and tell them they can't ring your Ported Number, as Johnr says, your working backwards here we don't have the lines with Telstar Clear so can't open a ticket on those numbers behalf.

If you had an issue with ringing a number your first call would be to us and it would be our responsibility to fix it, same applies here but in reverse, in saying that I will see what I can do if you can PM the details of the 3 Telstra Numbers and what they get I will see if I can do anything. 




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 152321 29-Jul-2008 10:01
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See, personally, if I was WorldXChange, I'd be raising hell on any shared technical groups...  Perhaps the numbering plan people? 

Because...  Why would I want to have a WorldXChange account if people couldn't call the number?  Would that increase or decrease the plan's value for a business?  I would expect it would drop the value of the account to near 0.

So, we've got a situation where:

1) The TCL customers don't care, they call the mobile.
2) TCL doesn't care, they aren't getting any complaints from their customers.
3) WorldXChange doesn't appear to care (mistakenly so), they say call TCL.
4) The guy that does care can't do anything about it.

Well, actually, he can...  He can go somewhere where the carrier has more leverage on these sorts of fault.  TCL, or TNZ.

We seem to be seeing a heck of a lot routing issues between carriers since NP came in.  I think this shows that there is a gap in the fault resolution processes in the NZ telecommunications market.  Are there any call completion SLAs?




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WorldxChange

  Reply # 152346 29-Jul-2008 10:51
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jpollock: See, personally, if I was WorldXChange, I'd be raising hell on any shared technical groups...  Perhaps the numbering plan people? 

Because...  Why would I want to have a WorldXChange account if people couldn't call the number?  Would that increase or decrease the plan's value for a business?  I would expect it would drop the value of the account to near 0.

So, we've got a situation where:

1) The TCL customers don't care, they call the mobile.
They do care, same way as our customers care if they couldn't call a number

2) TCL doesn't care, they aren't getting any complaints from their customers.
As above they will complain to TCL if you can't make calls

3) WorldXChange doesn't appear to care (mistakenly so), they say call TCL.
Sorry Jason absolutely wrong here and you should know better than that Tongue out, we do care (alot) but you are missing the point we can not log a Fault on behalf of a TC customer, same way as they someone from TC could not log a fault with us directly for your Number , We have / They have no authorisation, if the TC customer logs a fault with TC they are obligated to check it out and will find most probably that in this case they have stuffed the porting up in a Switch load , generally this is quicker than us trying to go through our carrier contacts.

4) The guy that does care can't do anything about it.
Well, actually, he can... 
I agree he can, help us to help him by getting the TC customers to ring TC and tell them they can't ring his number, also asked him to supply me his details so I can go through the carrier side , this may take longer though, Also TC will not take any faults from our helpdesk people as I say again, we have no Authorisation to act on a TC customers behalf , the amount of trouble we and they could get into if TC acted on a request from us..... then there would a thread war damning us all to hell.... damned if we do damned if we don't.


We seem to be seeing a heck of a lot routing issues between carriers since NP came in. 
I agree, make no mistake here NP is actually a very very tricky business and some carriers do it better than others, some seem to be downright terrible it, but when you know what is actually involved with data manipulation, switch loads, databases it is a very very complicated process, it works well for some people but it requires every carrier to do the Job right across all platforms, if one part fails then some people will be effected and in this case I'm picking TC have an issue

I think this shows that there is a gap in the fault resolution processes in the NZ telecommunications market.  Are there any call completion SLAs?

Yes there are, but these kinds of issue's probably do not  show up, because it could be effecting only a small minority of customers, in this case possibly TC customers in one local area because the switch load details are missing for this customers number port.







Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 152358 29-Jul-2008 11:26
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1) The TCL customers don't care, they call the mobile.
They do care, same way as our customers care if they couldn't call a number
Ah, but not enough to complain, which is the same thing.  Is it a fault if no one reports it?   Not on most quality system stats. ;)
2) TCL doesn't care, they aren't getting any complaints from their customers.
As above they will complain to TCL if you can't make calls
Except that the pain of not making a call to a single WxC number is less than the pain represented by waiting on the line for TCL for an hour.  So, TCL has engineered their service to prevent complaints.  Nice racket, nice barrier to entry for a new entrant.
3) WorldXChange doesn't appear to care (mistakenly so), they say call TCL.
Sorry Jason absolutely wrong here and you should know better than that Tongue out, we do care (alot) but you are missing the point we can not log a Fault on behalf of a TC customer, same way as they someone from TC could not log a fault with us directly for your Number , We have / They have no authorisation, if the TC customer logs a fault with TC they are obligated to check it out and will find most probably that in this case they have stuffed the porting up in a Switch load , generally this is quicker than us trying to go through our carrier contacts.
The problem is that the only person who is affected by the problem is your customer.  No one else.  That's why alternate root domains are priced so cheaply - because no one routes traffic to them.  TCL's fault is devaluing your product.  Show some anger!  Seek blood!  Revenge! :)
4) The guy that does care can't do anything about it.
Well, actually, he can... 
I agree he can, help us to help him by getting the TC customers to ring TC and tell them they can't ring his number, also asked him to supply me his details so I can go through the carrier side , this may take longer though, Also TC will not take any faults from our helpdesk people as I say again, we have no Authorisation to act on a TC customers behalf , the amount of trouble we and they could get into if TC acted on a request from us..... then there would a thread war damning us all to hell.... damned if we do damned if we don't.
Yep, it shows that there's a hole in the NZ process.  Thats why I asked about the numbering plan people.  They would seem to be the party who would be a clearing house for these sorts of routing problems?  It sounds like it's a huge hole with a lot of potential for shenanigans on the part of the major telcos.  I was just surprised to see the lack of ownership for an incomplete port of a customer.  At the very least, the number of complaints you guys are getting should point out that this is something that needs to be looked at for the whole marketplace.
We seem to be seeing a heck of a lot routing issues between carriers since NP came in. 
I agree, make no mistake here NP is actually a very very tricky business and some carriers do it better than others, some seem to be downright terrible it, but when you know what is actually involved with data manipulation, switch loads, databases it is a very very complicated process, it works well for some people but it requires every carrier to do the Job right across all platforms, if one part fails then some people will be effected and in this case I'm picking TC have an issue
Oh, I agree, it's more than likely TCL's fault.  However, it could also be that WxC is a little intolerant of TCL's mistakes...  Perhaps WxC is rejecting incoming voice traffic if it arrives at the wrong gateway?  Who knows?  He has no way to get a fault raised with TCL to track the problem down.
I think this shows that there is a gap in the fault resolution processes in the NZ telecommunications market.  Are there any call completion SLAs?

Yes there are, but these kinds of issue's probably do not  show up, because it could be effecting only a small minority of customers, in this case possibly TC customers in one local area because the switch load details are missing for this customers number port.
I apologise for coming across strongly.  I've seen more than enough "not our problem, talk to them" finger pointing.  I've even watched it played against our customers.  It isn't good, and it isn't good and leaves me feeling dirty. :(

Hrm.  I sense a market opportunity here.  Off to the sales team!




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  Reply # 152687 30-Jul-2008 13:55
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icepicknz, if you aren't able to get any traction with TCL, it looks like the Telecommunication Dispute Resolution service would be the correct venue for this problem.

http://www.tdr.org.nz/

They mention pan-industry problems (an incomplete port would seem to be pan-industry), and seem to have all the right members.

http://www.tdr.org.nz/about-scheme/pan-industry-systemic-issues

Good Luck!




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  Reply # 152714 30-Jul-2008 15:38
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Maverick, you have helped me a lot and you are a nice guy, but sorry I do not understand that you do not have authority to follow this up.  If WxC was authorised to request the number port, then WxC has the authority to ensure that the port is done correctly and raise the issue if it was not done correctly?




You can never have enough Volvos!




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  Reply # 152718 30-Jul-2008 15:55
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According to IPMS:

Network Updates

Carrier

Confirmed Date/Time

CALLPLUS01 20-Mar-2008 09:26
TCLA100 20-Mar-2008 09:27
WOOSH01 20-Mar-2008 09:28
COMPASS01 20-Mar-2008 09:30
IHUG 20-Mar-2008 09:30
ORCONLOCAL 20-Mar-2008 09:30
AIRNETNZ 20-Mar-2008 09:30
WXCLOCAL 20-Mar-2008 09:34
VFNZ01 20-Mar-2008 09:44


All operators seem to have updated.




Barry Murphy
ISPMap - New Zealand ISP map
Vibe Communications LTD - Business ISP and Wholesale Carrier



Any comments made by myself don't reflect the views of my employer, they are mine and mine alone

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WorldxChange

  Reply # 152724 30-Jul-2008 16:09
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Guys, you are all missing the point  when a number port goes through we test and it is signed off by GSP (Gaining Service Provider) and LSP (Losing Service Provider) we test when the number port goes through it gets signed off that that stage. If we get any issues related to the port then yes we go back and chase up, but if it happens a few months later because one calling area can't call a number then it goes into a normal fault process,

BTW still don't have any details for this particular issue , when ?, what numbers ?,  how long ago was the port ? is this actaully a Telecom or Telstra or even vodafone number before it was ported ? ...so pretty hard to follow up.!!!, perhaps if the TC people had actually rung TC then it may have been solved whilst we try and find out details about customers that don't live on on our Network....as TC say "Nows Good" Wink

For this type of Fault it is best to work from the start point and not the endpoint thats why we will ask for the TC  customers  to ring thier provider and get them to check why they can't ring a certain number.





Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 152730 30-Jul-2008 16:25
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I have some friends at telstra so managed to log the fault in the end.
The fault has been since day one, as you can see I originally logged it in May...

It's not only big back yard clients, it appears not even telstra clear staff on 09 912 numbers can call me either.

Seems the A100 switch at telstra doesnt like my number, probably still routing it to TCNZ




Barry Murphy
ISPMap - New Zealand ISP map
Vibe Communications LTD - Business ISP and Wholesale Carrier



Any comments made by myself don't reflect the views of my employer, they are mine and mine alone



309 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 152731 30-Jul-2008 16:29
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GSP Port Request Details

Port Date Port Time
Complex    
Customer / Account Id XXX
 

Current SOM Details

SOM
Type
Status
Request Date/Time
Emergency Return
Previous SOM
Override Losing Service Provider
   
Losing Service Provider
 
Gaining Service Provider
 
Port Date Port Time
Complex
GSP Internal Reference
LSP Internal Reference
Gaining Service Provider Contact
 


Not Req

Gaining Carrier

Losing Carrier

From Number

To Number

Handset Reference

Port Successful

WXCLOCAL TNZPSTN 09440987    




Barry Murphy
ISPMap - New Zealand ISP map
Vibe Communications LTD - Business ISP and Wholesale Carrier



Any comments made by myself don't reflect the views of my employer, they are mine and mine alone

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 152757 30-Jul-2008 18:02
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Sounds like another use case for the TCF to establish better inter-carrier fault management, including the ability for carriers to log faults directly with one-another.

Common problem in the industry, though.

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