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4699 posts

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  # 2236787 14-May-2019 17:14
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Linux:

quickymart: So what changes now? Anything? Nothing?


Have you read the article? Clearly nothing as the sale goes ahead 2020


The Transaction is subject to customary regulatory approvals, with completion anticipated during Vodafone’s 2020 financial year


Thanks John, I did read it, cheers. I didn't mean "now" as in right this second, I meant as in once the transaction is approved/completed.

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  # 2236788 14-May-2019 17:15
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sbiddle:

networkn:


Just got an email from VF announcing the sale. I am surprised it wasn't sent by Jason Paris. It's normally the thing that the CEO writes about. 


Was signed off Ken Tunnicliffe Business Director


 



The masss mailout email this morning was from Jason


 


That's the one I got too. Maybe they sent a different one for business customers?

 
 
 
 


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  # 2236792 14-May-2019 17:19
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gmball:

 

networkn:

 

There seems to be a grim sort of sneering attitude in Kiwi's toward VF  almost hoping for it to fail and rejoycing in it's downward spiral. I find this disappointing to be honest.

 

Honestly, this isn't just directed towards Vodafone but towards any company who fail to take ownership to fix issues. I don't blame Kiwi's who have got so fed up with the customer service Vodafone provide and have left, for hoping Vodafone fail. 

 

Thats the thing with a small country, you cant treat customers like crap and somehow hope they forgive you.

 

I tend to be pretty forgiving but when management 1) Fail to publicly admit that there something wrong and what specific things need to be fixed b) Decide that short term dividends to shareholder(s) is more important than investing the money into fixing structural problems c) Spend time and money on peripheral issues (Vocus and Vodafone teaming up for fibre unbundling) that are distractions from what needs to be done, then can you blame people for getting reacting the way they do? It reminds me of ANZ Australia division moving their call centre to the Philippines and even today they're still failing to invest into fixing up their core banking system (still using Hogan 10 years after the parent company put it on life support) with no migration path forward, nothing to address the dearth of self service options which creates an uneconomically viable situation of larger and larger call centres with more and more unhappy customers.





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  # 2236847 14-May-2019 19:55
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quickymart:

 

Couldn't they just retire it and leave the network in place?
Then again, they don't have to pay Chorus anything if the connections are all on their own network, so savings to be made there. Pity they never finished the rollout in Christchurch (or started in Auckland) - but I guess fibre has overtaken cable as a "premium" connection type now.

 

 

You aren't allowed to abandon a network and leave it in place under the terms of initial installation on the poles. At the very least it will deteriorate and rot, falling down and potentially hurting people. Can you imagine the mess if networks were left in place? First Media, The bus wiring, Citynet etc

 

While cable can be comparable to fibre for performance in real terms - remember, its not just layer 2 performance but also aggregation layers and above - there is a cost to maintaining the network (which is now 25 years old in places) as well as throwing money for network management and upgrades. Even if they reduce the cable network to a UFB-equivalent model for provisioning and management, there is the cost of maintaining a dual-network setup and being the provider of spares and repairs (which the fibre providers are currently doing). 

 

So opportunity cost of dismantling cable - lets say $20m - and converting all those connections to $51/month UFB, which for say75k homes is an increase in annual costs of $43m. No special deals for volume in UFB world remember... level playing field for everyone, and UFB is on a cycle that guarantees the wholesale price goes up every year in line with CPI.





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  # 2237061 14-May-2019 23:29
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Good point, and I see what you mean. I admit it's been some years since I worked at TCL and the world has changed a lot since then. No (residential) fibre back in 2005, like today, that's for sure. Cable was the bees knees back then (if you could get it).


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  # 2238233 15-May-2019 10:37
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There are some really fascinating insights in this article by Bernard Hickey.

 

In particular, Jason Paris is expecting to keep the Vodafone brand and wants to push fixed wireless products harder now that he no longer has resistance from head office.


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  # 2238375 15-May-2019 14:02
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networkn:

nakedmolerat: How much I hate the service, vodafone has the best Roaming plan. I wonder $5 roaming may be taken off the menu given they won't be part of vodafone network?


That would be a serious misstep. They will still retain strong links to the VF Group.


Roaming is a key part of why I am with VF. I don't use it extensively, but I don't want to go back to renting simcards in other countries to get cost effective phone/internet when I travel. 


 



I'm using it to write this. It is 100% the biggest reason I use VF.

Several countries I visit reasonably often (in SE Asia) are not covered by the plan though.





 
 
 
 


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  # 2238389 15-May-2019 14:32
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Interesting that people here think that $5 roaming is a good deal. In the past when I've gone to the UK I've just bought a local Vodafone pay-as-you-go monthly plan and paid £20 (about NZ$39 at today's rates) for 10GB and unlimited UK calls and texts. If I instead used roaming for the 1 month I was away then it would cost me $150. The only advantage to using roaming would be that I could receive calls to my usual number, but that's not of much use to me as I rarely receive calls and the few people that are likely to call me would know that I was away anyway.

 

Or am I missing something?


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  # 2238430 15-May-2019 15:44
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MurrayM:

 

Interesting that people here think that $5 roaming is a good deal. In the past when I've gone to the UK I've just bought a local Vodafone pay-as-you-go monthly plan and paid £20 (about NZ$39 at today's rates) for 10GB and unlimited UK calls and texts. If I instead used roaming for the 1 month I was away then it would cost me $150. The only advantage to using roaming would be that I could receive calls to my usual number, but that's not of much use to me as I rarely receive calls and the few people that are likely to call me would know that I was away anyway.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

 

You're not missing anything.

 

But being away for a month or more in the same overseas country is not the use case for which roaming is a good answer.
You are right, in that case a local SIM on a local plan with a local number - maybe in a dual-SIM phone - probably gives a cheaper cash outcome.

 

However, if you're spending four weeks in six countries, or the ability to accept calls on and return calls from your NZ number is vital, you may need a different solution.

 

 

 

And just for laughs, while your UK phone can roam across the EU at the moment, come Brexit maybe not: the UK phone companies will no longer be constrained by EU law to allow roaming freely to and from the EU-26. They might, but they might not: it'll depend on how they think they can make the most money
😬


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  # 2238431 15-May-2019 15:45
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For me the benefits of roaming are:

 

  • Ability to receive calls, as you noted. I consider this essential.
  • Being able to turn the phone on and use it as soon as the plane lands, rather than having to research overseas SIM options and find a retailer to buy one.

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  # 2238484 15-May-2019 16:15
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@MurrayM:

 

Interesting that people here think that $5 roaming is a good deal. In the past when I've gone to the UK I've just bought a local Vodafone pay-as-you-go monthly plan and paid £20 (about NZ$39 at today's rates) for 10GB and unlimited UK calls and texts. If I instead used roaming for the 1 month I was away then it would cost me $150. The only advantage to using roaming would be that I could receive calls to my usual number, but that's not of much use to me as I rarely receive calls and the few people that are likely to call me would know that I was away anyway.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

 

I think it's a good deal when I go to Australia for two days and back. Sometimes I go once a month only, sometimes twice a month. The point is I don't have time to muck around at the airport looking for the right connection type to buy and then missing my calls, etc. I just get off the plane, into the train to the CBD. In these cases my time is worth more than the $5/day.

 

Different if i go to a country for two weeks holiday. But for business, there's no comparison.





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  # 2238490 15-May-2019 16:34
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MurrayM:

 

Interesting that people here think that $5 roaming is a good deal. In the past when I've gone to the UK I've just bought a local Vodafone pay-as-you-go monthly plan and paid £20 (about NZ$39 at today's rates) for 10GB and unlimited UK calls and texts. If I instead used roaming for the 1 month I was away then it would cost me $150. The only advantage to using roaming would be that I could receive calls to my usual number, but that's not of much use to me as I rarely receive calls and the few people that are likely to call me would know that I was away anyway.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

 

You are missing something. Something big, which may not apply to you, but certainly applies to many I know, and that having a different number means people either need to dial internationally, or you need to route your calls, which almost always has a cost. 

 

$150 for a month of internet and calling when I am overseas, isn't likely even a consideration. It would be a rounding error on my other costs. 

 

 


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  # 2238517 15-May-2019 17:32
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I find it interesting that the value of Vodafone NZ hasnt changed since the last proposed transaction - in fact its fallen to the bottom of the range ($3.4bn-3.7bn).  Its modeled independent valuation was $3.5bn-$4.2bn (management base case).

 

In that time (since June 2016) revenues have hardly grown and EBITDA has hardly moved (its the same level as 2015).  Meanwhile long bond yields have collapsed and discount rates should be lower than the last valuation exercise.

 

It missed its 2016 and 2017 forecasts despite the cost out programs.  Revenue CAGR's were forecast at 1.8% and yet actual revenues have been flat.  There were forecast to be service revenues paid to the parent of $88m per annum - it;ll be interesting to see if the same sort of level of outflow is still proposed.    

 

Clearly there were rose tinted glasses back then - hopefully for Infratil shareholders the rose-tinted glasses have come off.  Still hard to see why Infratil wants to own it however it will earn some good management fees for the new owners.

 

 

 

 


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  # 2238520 15-May-2019 17:37
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I'd personally like to see the Vodafone brand name dropped for something new as to me it now has that tarnish "Telecom" had. They rebranded as Spark and went to work on a new image which I feel they have done well on.


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  # 2238529 15-May-2019 18:07
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A big difference though is that Vodafone is a worldwide, well-known brand, whereas Telecom was (mostly) NZ only.


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