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355 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 163789 11-Sep-2008 15:17
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QoS is definitely implemented on some ISP's. It would be fair to limit the usage for Xnet users on the torrent plan but to extend this to other users seems wrong. It'll be interesting to see how torrent use continues to play out. I was speaking to someone working with Compass, busy collaborating with Vodafone and Telecom for VoIP rates and he told me that international bandwidth cost is horrendous. Furthermore, it costs us over 3 times more (MB for MB) than our Ausi friends thanks to economies of scale. We need another international cable or the ISP's need to wake up and start encouraging national use (free national use for instance, like some Australian ISP's).

302 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 163813 11-Sep-2008 17:03
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JoeBloggs: QoS is definitely implemented on some ISP's. It would be fair to limit the usage for Xnet users on the torrent plan but to extend this to other users seems wrong. It'll be interesting to see how torrent use continues to play out. I was speaking to someone working with Compass, busy collaborating with Vodafone and Telecom for VoIP rates and he told me that international bandwidth cost is horrendous. Furthermore, it costs us over 3 times more (MB for MB) than our Ausi friends thanks to economies of scale. We need another international cable or the ISP's need to wake up and start encouraging national use (free national use for instance, like some Australian ISP's).


Lets hope that Pipe Networks cable across the Tasman comes into fruition and soon!




– J

93 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 163815 11-Sep-2008 17:13
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retardinator:

We shouldn't have to resort to this to get Youtube running smoothly. But I just found this and it allows me to pretend that Xnet is providing an adequate service, adequate enough to watch Youtube. I think many will find this software helpful.




thanks for the application. however its not exactly useful to me. but it works well anyhow. problem I have is.. when i click on a video to stream, it wont load.. and this application will only work when the streamins starts.. so I wait for a good 5-10 minutes for the streaming to start.. and in that case only then the application kicks in n helps..

27 posts

Geek


  Reply # 163838 11-Sep-2008 19:41
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JoeBloggs: QoS is definitely implemented on some ISP's. It would be fair to limit the usage for Xnet users on the torrent plan but to extend this to other users seems wrong...


ahh, but  Xnet say that they dont use any QOS or DPS technics!

Im not convinced on this tho!

229 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 163850 11-Sep-2008 20:10
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wuffie:
JoeBloggs: QoS is definitely implemented on some ISP's. It would be fair to limit the usage for Xnet users on the torrent plan but to extend this to other users seems wrong...


ahh, but  Xnet say that they dont use any QOS or DPS technics!

Im not convinced on this tho!

I'd say it's pretty convincing when people not on the torrent plan can't get 5KB/s during the offpeak torrentplan times wouldn;t you?

27 posts

Geek


  Reply # 163851 11-Sep-2008 20:25
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snnet:
I'd say it's pretty convincing when people not on the torrent plan can't get 5KB/s during the offpeak torrentplan times wouldn;t you?

Im slightly confused, too tired to undestand at the moment
What i mean is im not convinced they dont use QOS despite them saying they dont
and ill point out once again that encryted data streams beautifully for me which begs the question, IS there more Int. bandwidth that they are letting on and there really just putting QOS on normal data streams and acting like the slow speeds are beacuse they are limmited

I dont mind if thats the case, When i signed up to xnet i knew every other dog and his owner would be too for the high data account and i knew it would be bogged down, but when they go and say things that dont add up it annoys me and makes me suspicious

in any case, im off to bed
night everyone, hope u all have a good night

6314 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 163870 11-Sep-2008 22:14
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WxC purchases a set pipe of international capacity which is divvied out to all its customers.  As mentioned here, WxC leaves it up to the customer as to what they use their purchased data allowance for.  The Torrent plan charges customers more for downloading during peak times, encouraging heavy users to move their data usage to the early hours of the morning when the vast majority of us are asleep.  To give lower priority to .torrent traffic (which is where the vast majority of data is going) over normal traffic would break what Cecil (WxC CEO) mentioned in his answers.  It is a fair policy, if I purchase a set block of data, I should be able to use it for whatever (legal) purpose I see fit.

The reality is we are geographically very far away from where the vast majority of sites we use are based, and it costs a lot of $$ to get bandwidth to NZ.  Once Telecom takes their cut for providing the DSL circuit, what's left over has to go on overheads + profit.  It's a balance of providing affordable service vs. keeping overheads at a manageable level.

There is plenty of international capacity (the Southern Cross cable has a maximum of 12 terrabits/second) but it's the cost which is the biggest factor.  To give you an idea, one of our datacenter providers charges around $350 a month per 512Kbps of international capacity.  At that rate, theoretically, to guarantee a 7.1Mbps ADSL connection full international capacity, the cost would be $4,970 a month, a little more than the ~$50 WxC charge.

To complain about speeds during off-peak when you know that those on Torrent plan have 75Gb of free data to use is completely pointless.  Either move your browsing habits to on-peak times, or move to an ISP that also wants your tolls, charges you regardless of whether you use your full data cap or not etc.  The probably reason why WxC haven’t posted here is the Torrent plan is doing exactly what they intended – speeding up the experience for 95% of its users, while keeping the other 5% of heavy users happy.

Finally, WxC is one of the few ISPs that contribute here, and a five page topic on this isn't going to encourage them to stick around.  If you are really that unhappy, vote with your feet and move to another provider - I for one am sick of reading endless topics about speed - you aren't the only one, and there are plenty of others who have already mentioned it.

114 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 163900 12-Sep-2008 01:00
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unmindful : To complain about speeds during off-peak when you know that those on Torrent plan have 75Gb of free data to use is completely pointless.

I would agree with you if you were addressing Flood users. However you appear to be addressing stream and river users when you say '...that those on Torrent plan...', therefore I think you are wrong. As, for example, people on the River plans should have cause for complaint during off-peak, as they are paying for FS/128kbps during this period and they will never obtain this and it is nothing to do with their line.

superficial grasp of crux: Either move your browsing habits to on-peak times, or move to an ISP that also wants your tolls, charges you regardless of whether you use your full data cap or not etc.  The probably reason why WxC haven’t posted here is the Torrent plan is doing exactly what they intended – speeding up the experience for 95% of its users, while keeping the other 5% of heavy users happy.

Crap. The reality is, as I've stated earlier, Xnet are not purchasing the required amount of international allocation (To apportion off to subscribers as their plans dictate) as they can't afford for any of it to be unused, it is more than likely that they have underpriced their product. Yet they state that they will supply FS/128 or FS/FS and the only limitation being the speed that the physical line will allow based on ADSL1 technology. They need to adjust their pricing, or realise their fine print needs adjustment, because they are simply not providing the minimum expected.

The main problem isn't exactly the off-peak, it's the on-peak data subscribers are 'relatively' paying a premium for. Simply changing browsing habits wont do it.

 Finally, WxC is one of the few ISPs that contribute here

Cripes?! Wonder when they will contribute within this topic?


114 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 163904 12-Sep-2008 01:41
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www.xnet.co.nz :

Interleaving

In some cases the Xnet Service provides for the turning off of interleaving. All services have interleaving on as a default setting, and turning interleaving off must be requested, subject to the following:

  1. As removing interleaving may affect the quality of the service, service may be degraded - customers should be aware that the service may not meet their expectations
  2. Further to the above, Xnet may turn Interleaving back on to ensure a minimum quality of service is experienced
  3. As the change in interleaving is a manual process only one change, either on or off, will be permitted per month, with the exception of the change for point B above.



Has anyone asked to have this turned off? if so, did it help?

I'll try this tomorrow and report back.


355 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 163905 12-Sep-2008 01:54
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Nate, the thread is about how the other plans are also throttled during off-peak times.

It appears now that they don't filter traffic but rather have very fixed bandwidth which is thoroughly utilised during offpeak times by torrent users. Stupidly they haven't allocated bandwidth by plan, everyone just shares the same pool.

7 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 163908 12-Sep-2008 02:21
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Well at least the uploads are good Tongue out


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 163922 12-Sep-2008 07:54
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XNet does shape traffic, they have QoS for VFX.  Don't know about anything else, but they do for VFX.  If they say they do not shape other traffic, then that is probably true.  Perhaps their international provider shapes traffic?  As a normal user, I'm happy with the throughput in the evenings.




You can never have enough Volvos!


286 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 15


  Reply # 163941 12-Sep-2008 08:47
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Part of the problem porbably is with Asianetcom offering ISPs soemthing they can't deliver.

If you look @ ispmap.co.nz the ISPs with "good" plans i.e. Slingshot/xnet use Asianetcom whilst the ones that are more expensive and reportedly have quite good service ie.e snap use a diff Gateway.

From experience, as in when I worked at QSI before it fell apart, ISPs will try to get customers by offering the biggest plans and they'll try to use the losest bidder to supply this - looks like ANC is this. :)

QSI did have a brain on their heads by using TCL for high priority stuff.


407 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 163949 12-Sep-2008 09:16
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the ACTUAL problem is that we live in NZ and we are not big enough to spend huge amounts on fast internet infrastructure.

The only reason we are complaining is because we compare speeds to the USA. I was in Tahiti recently and internet is nowhere near as fast as it is here. Consider yourselves lucky.

Xnet are a great company who are doing all they can to provide a quaility service. All the moaning in the world is not going to change anything. If you want fast broadband purchase your own international bandwidth but don't go complaining about the cost.

I could not be happier than the service I get from xnet - well done you guys you provide a fast reliable service that suits my needs very well!

Cheers
Chris

6314 posts

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  Reply # 163962 12-Sep-2008 11:00
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retardinator: I would agree with you if you were addressing Flood users. However you appear to be addressing stream and river users when you say '...that those on Torrent plan...', therefore I think you are wrong. As, for example, people on the River plans should have cause for complaint during off-peak, as they are paying for FS/128kbps during this period and they will never obtain this and it is nothing to do with their line.


I had this wrong initially as well - the torrent option is a data pricing plan, ie its available to you on Stream/River/Flood.  If you are on the normal plan, you pay $1/Gb anytime.  On the torrent plan you pay $1.50/Gb between 8am-midnight, then free (up to 75Gb) between midnight and 8am, regardless of Stream/River/Flood.

As for the River users and off-peak, how many of them are actually up and awake using this service?  As a business, they need to cater for the majority, not the minority.

retardinator: Crap. The reality is, as I've stated earlier, Xnet are not purchasing the required amount of international allocation (To apportion off to subscribers as their plans dictate) as they can't afford for any of it to be unused, it is more than likely that they have underpriced their product. Yet they state that they will supply FS/128 or FS/FS and the only limitation being the speed that the physical line will allow based on ADSL1 technology. They need to adjust their pricing, or realise their fine print needs adjustment, because they are simply not providing the minimum expected.


International capacity is a huge overhead, and not really worth it for the few users who are up browsing at off-peak times. I think you will be unpopular here for suggesting WxC need to put up their prices.

All ISPs have their advantages/disadvantages.  In order to maintain the price point and level of service WxC offer, you get good speed during peak times when the vast majority of users are online, and it slows down offpeak when only a small subsection of users are online. What WxC say on their site is relevant to most people (other than GZ users, who else is online in the crazy early morning hours?)

retardinator: Cripes?! Wonder when they will contribute within this topic?


I doubt they will. Cecil has already answered these queries here.

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