Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




479 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

# 259954 1-Nov-2019 19:38
Send private message quote this post

@JasonParis:

 

==

 

Ok, I have now reached the end of my tether on this so apologies if this is a bit long winded.

 

About 6 years ago Auckland City Council changed our street number from xab to xyz.  Nothing else changed, just the number.  Physical location remains as it was.

 

Just to compound the issue, our physical location is not a mail deliverable address.  That is we cannot receive mail at our physical address (and as a consequence, in 95%+ of cases, cannot get courier deliveries either).  In lieu, NZ Post provide us with a PO Box.  I understand that by law/under their mandate/or whatever, they are required to provide deliveries to all NZ households.  Non-deliverable addresses are not exactly unheard of in rural NZ though (and even in some urban areas).

 

So we go through the laborious process of notifying all friends/relatives/business contacts etc of the change.  In 95%+ of cases that took just a single email or phone call to get the change made.  In a few cases it required 2 or 3 attempts over a year or so.  With one exception - Vodafone.

 

Despite at least eight and probably more like a dozen attempts over about six years, Vodafone still has not, and seems unable to correct the physical address.  That is despite multiple promises that it would be sorted.  I thought I had finally managed to get it sorted 2 - 3 years ago.  But about three weeks ago we had problems with our landline and in discussion with NZ based tech staff it turned out that they still had our old (now invalid) address in their system.  The first person I spoke to promised to fix it, then as we still needed to resolve our phone problem I was put onto a second NZ based staff member.  The agreed solution was for use to take out a new 12 month contract and get a new Ultra Hub modem as their testing showed our old HG659 was faulty.  To my surprise, in the follow up it turned out that our address was still incorrect.  The first person had not fixed it.  So painstakingly go through the whole process again, with the second person promising to fix it.  Then to finalise issues over the lack of landline service until the new modem arrived, I was forwarded onto yet another staff member.  Finalise of course meant going through all the details yet again (landline problems & new 12 month contract).  And of course yet again it transpired that our address was still incorrect. This turned out to be the longest call of all but the person I was speaking with seemed on the ball. 

 

The problem, it turned out, was that addresses cannot be added manually.  The address needs to be typed in and a match obtained with an address in the Vodafone address database, which I was told is obtained from NZ Post.  Despite repeated attempts, no match could be obtained for our physical address.  I even got the guy to go onto Google and NZ Post websites and type it in to show him that it is a valid physical address.  And indeed that NZ Post do have our correct physical address in their system.  After a very lengthy call/calls totaling about 4 hours that day, we finally sorted details of our new 12 contract, and the tech person promised that (a) he would send through confirmation of the new contract details in 15 - 20 minutes, and (b) would follow up re the address issue, which would require it to be taken to a higher level so that it could be manually entered in.  A few days, still no confirmation email came through so I texted one of the others I had spoken to as she was waiting for confirmation so that she could organise our new modem.  Now about three weeks later still no confirmation and still no new modem.

 

So today I follow up yet again, this time speaking with Bombay staff.  Yet again, the Vodafone system still had our old incorrect address.  Again go through all the details with three separate support staff. This time I confined it to the address issue and of course they also were unable fix it.  They did not seem to have any record of my contact with Vodafone three weeks ago, including anything about the new 12 month contract. Eventually I gave up on it after over 1 hours on the call.  And no, they were not able to escalate the call back to NZ (or so they claimed).

 

So now 6 years down the track, and just one organisation in the world is not able to make a simple address correction - Vodafone NZ.  Six years and still not able to change it.

 

The problem it seems is that the address database Vodafone obtains from NZ Post includes only mail delivery addresses.  They then appear to use that database of deliverable addresses to validate our physical address, which of course they cannot do because our address is not a deliverable address. 

 

Yet NZ Post themselves do have a comprehensive address database that does include our address (it matches, but in the details box it states in big red letters "No postal delivery").  In fact, unlike Google Maps, the NZ Post database places the address pointer in map view directly over the centre of our house.  In Gmaps, it is at the road front, ~300m from our house.  So NZ post clearly have their own independent, comprehensive address database.  But Vodafone are clearly only buying the 'deliverable address' component.  All well and good for ensuring that postal addresses are valid but to use that same database to validate physical addresses is simple incompetence.  Yes, they have separate billing and situation address fields, and yes, they have our correct billing address (the PO Box).

 

In short, the system is broken.

 

X Squad?

 

 

 

 


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
'That VDSL Cat'
11551 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2347381 1-Nov-2019 19:45
3 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

As someone who deals with the same software stacks (at the basic level anyway) for address management and order management as vodafone, i can confirm it's nowhere near as clear cut as you suspect it is..

 

 

 

Many of the deliverable validations are also required in different ways depending on what dispatch method is used etc.

 

in your particular case, it does sound like one that probably should have just been handled outside of the system. I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


15576 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2347386 1-Nov-2019 19:54
9 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

The best solution when facing a need for Vodafone support is generally to move to another provider. It will reduce your stress levels considerably, you'll get better service, better performance, better routing, and it may be cheaper as well. I can recommend 2degrees for customer service and performance.


 
 
 
 


1741 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2347388 1-Nov-2019 19:57
3 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

I would say walk away and try another provider, thats what I have tried.......no such luck for me

 

 

 

My Story, several months ago closed broadband and mobile service with VF.

 

In the past week I have received from VF a very big bill, along with a nice note to please call them to sort it out.

 

Yesterday I have tried that, after a long time (1.5hrs) talking to Bombay the person promised to call me back with a resolution, didn't happen, rang again today and was simply told our system says you owe $XYZ, I asked to be emailed proof of this and was told to contact my local store, I have a pretty good idea that most people don't actively go looking for evidence that proves they owe money - a simple request in the attempt to resolve should be VF supplying the proof.

 

@JasonParis what now?

 

Maybe it's time to get Fair Go to have a chew on the Vodafone bone.......

 

 


3110 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 2347392 1-Nov-2019 20:13
3 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Put the X Squad to the test and see what they come up with, yet to see any feedback on Geekzone about how well they do


4326 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2347403 1-Nov-2019 21:15
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

What's the actual issue though? A tech couldnt find your address?

If Vodafone are too incompetent (I suspect they are) to communicate with Chorus properly for a fault, no amount of address manipulation is going to help.

I also dont accept "the platforms are complex". Yep they are complex, because they need to account for stuff like this. If a provider cant handle it, pick another.

618 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2347404 1-Nov-2019 21:16
7 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

As someone who deals with the same software stacks (at the basic level anyway) for address management and order management as vodafone, i can confirm it's nowhere near as clear cut as you suspect it is..

 

 

 

Many of the deliverable validations are also required in different ways depending on what dispatch method is used etc.

 

in your particular case, it does sound like one that probably should have just been handled outside of the system. I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though.

 

 

Rubbish. The issue is lack of investment in software for billing and provisioning, compounded by acquisition of companies all equally lacking in such investment in their systems. Vodafone has accumulated so much technical debt that it’s going to be expensive to remediate.





BlinkyBill


4326 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2347405 1-Nov-2019 21:17
19 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though.



How f'd does a company have to be when the only recourse is to tag the CEO in 3rd party forum...

 
 
 
 




479 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  # 2347426 1-Nov-2019 23:31
Send private message quote this post

hio77: As someone who deals with the same software stacks (at the basic level anyway) for address management and order management as vodafone, i can confirm it's nowhere near as clear cut as you suspect it is..

 

Many of the deliverable validations are also required in different ways depending on what dispatch method is used etc.

 

in your particular case, it does sound like one that probably should have just been handled outside of the system. I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though. 

 

 

 

Not certain I fully understand all the above but the problem should not be that difficult.  Seems to be Vodafone specific. 

 

None of the following sites have any difficulty in identifying/matching our address:

 

Of course, there may be sites or organisations that do not locate us, but all the ones I checked do.

 

Somewhat ironically NZ Post assign us a 'postcode' despite classifying us as a non-deliverable address.


81 posts

Master Geek


  # 2347428 2-Nov-2019 00:13
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

I suggest vote with your feet. Unless you call Fairgo, big companies think “Fix billing service” or “loose 0.5% of clients”. A no brainer to an accountant...


4817 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2347447 2-Nov-2019 08:16
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Wow what a nightmare. Definitely just move to another provider. As an aside, I've actually had 98% of all my (physical) mail sent to a PO Box for years now, but even that amount of mail is on a steady decline. I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of my PO Box in the next year or so as I just don't seem to get enough mail to warrant the cost anymore, of which NZ Post steadily keeps raising.


4106 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 2347472 2-Nov-2019 09:21
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

As someone who deals with the same software stacks (at the basic level anyway) for address management and order management as vodafone, i can confirm it's nowhere near as clear cut as you suspect it is..

 

Many of the deliverable validations are also required in different ways depending on what dispatch method is used etc.

 

in your particular case, it does sound like one that probably should have just been handled outside of the system. I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though.

 



 

I think that after the OP’s six years of frustration the thought that the CEO might simply be able ‘smooth it over’ is hardly an appropriate choice of words and neither is it an acceptable solution in the big picture.





Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.


114 posts

Master Geek


  # 2347530 2-Nov-2019 10:07
5 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

As someone who deals with the same software stacks (at the basic level anyway) for address management and order management as vodafone, i can confirm it's nowhere near as clear cut as you suspect it is..

 

 

 

Many of the deliverable validations are also required in different ways depending on what dispatch method is used etc.

 

in your particular case, it does sound like one that probably should have just been handled outside of the system. I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though.

 

 

Do you think that at the end of the day that they customer cares about that? They just want to pay their bill & get the service that they pay for. It shouldn't take multiple days to change this, let alone six years.


618 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2347549 2-Nov-2019 11:33
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

boosacnoodle:

 

hio77:

 

As someone who deals with the same software stacks (at the basic level anyway) for address management and order management as vodafone, i can confirm it's nowhere near as clear cut as you suspect it is..

 

 

 

Many of the deliverable validations are also required in different ways depending on what dispatch method is used etc.

 

in your particular case, it does sound like one that probably should have just been handled outside of the system. I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though.

 

 

Do you think that at the end of the day that they customer cares about that? They just want to pay their bill & get the service that they pay for. It shouldn't take multiple days to change this, let alone six years.

 

 

correct. Also, a DBA could edit the database to change the number - this happens all the time elsewhere if the “software stack” isn’t helping.





BlinkyBill


1837 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2347924 4-Nov-2019 08:28
Send private message quote this post

BlinkyBill:

 

boosacnoodle:

 

hio77:

 

As someone who deals with the same software stacks (at the basic level anyway) for address management and order management as vodafone, i can confirm it's nowhere near as clear cut as you suspect it is..

 

Many of the deliverable validations are also required in different ways depending on what dispatch method is used etc.

 

in your particular case, it does sound like one that probably should have just been handled outside of the system. I'm sure JP will be able to smooth that over though.

 

 

Do you think that at the end of the day that they customer cares about that? They just want to pay their bill & get the service that they pay for. It shouldn't take multiple days to change this, let alone six years.

 

 

correct. Also, a DBA could edit the database to change the number - this happens all the time elsewhere if the “software stack” isn’t helping.

 

 

The problem with that is that you've now got data in your DB that doesn't pass validation. The next time someone tries to edit that data it'll get rejected as being invalid (eg if all contact data gets validated whenever something changes, then trying to change an email address or phone number might cause the address to be rejected).




479 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  # 2348075 4-Nov-2019 12:48
Send private message quote this post

The situation is not really that complex.  Almost, if not all address systems provide for a mailing address that is different from the physical address.  That is necessary because it is not uncommon for the two to be different.  While it is appropriate for the NZ Post Postal Address File (PAF) to be used for validating mailing addresses, it is entirely inappropriate for it to be used as the sole basis for validating physical addresses.  While not common, there are nevertheless many physical addresses like ours that are not mail deliverable. 

 

Something like either the full NZ Post address database (whatever it is called and assuming they do make it available) or the LINZ address database should be used for physical addresses or the system should allow easy bypassing of the validation for physical addresses.  Or perhaps the physical address validation could be staged: PAF > LINZ > bypass & tag on confirmation that the address is valid.

 

One point reinforces my belief that Vodafone are using the PAF or similar postal address database to validate physical address - the third Vodafone rep I spoke with 3+ weeks ago told me he could get no number larger than 'vmn' to validate/match on their system.  As I pointed out to him, 'vmn' is the last number on our road within the urban area.  The Vodafone address validation database had no 'x**' or higher numbers.  Not a big surprise because all the ~35 rural properties with 'x**' and higher numbers are in the same boat as us.  All the addresses are non-deliverable.

 

As mentioned in my earlier post, multiple other address databases/systems have no difficulty matching our address.   And there are many others (health system, ...).  But two in particular I forgot to add:

 

OK the VF site may be just a 'mirror' of the Chorus tool but it seems a touch ironic.  It was their Address Check site I used a couple of years ago to confirm that we could get VDSL and to order the change form ADSL to VDSL.  


 1 | 2
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Switch your broadband provider now - compare prices


Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Ring launches indoor-only security camera
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:26


New report findings will help schools implement the digital technologies curriculum content
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:25


N4L to upgrade & support wireless internet inside schools
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:22


Netflix releases 21 Studio Ghibli works
Posted 22-Jan-2020 11:42


Vodafone integrates eSIM into device and wearable roadmap
Posted 17-Jan-2020 09:45


Do you need this camera app? Group investigates privacy implications
Posted 16-Jan-2020 03:30


JBL launches headphones range designed for gaming
Posted 13-Jan-2020 09:59


Withings introduces ScanWatch wearable combining ECG and sleep apnea detection
Posted 9-Jan-2020 18:34


NZ Police releases public app
Posted 8-Jan-2020 11:43


Suunto 7 combine sports and smart features on new smartwatch generation
Posted 7-Jan-2020 16:06


Intel brings innovation with technology spanning the cloud, network, edge and PC
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:54


AMD announces high performance desktop and ultrathin laptop processors
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:42


AMD unveils four new desktop and mobile GPUs including AMD Radeon RX 5600
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:32


Consolidation in video streaming market with Spark selling Lightbox to Sky
Posted 19-Dec-2019 09:09


Intel introduces cryogenic control chip to enable quantum computers
Posted 10-Dec-2019 21:32



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.