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manhinli
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  #179130 20-Nov-2008 19:43
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zocster:
manhinli:

And of course comes the situation of where someone has no Internet access and gets punished (as described earlier).


Geekzoners with no internet access? Smile in this day and age, everyone has internet, or at least can get access to one. You get SMS notification of it, and you can click on the link on your email to get an 'itemised' bill printed off or looked on your PC. I as a business owner is more than happy to say that I prefer online bill as it eliminate the excuse of 'the postie has misplaced my bill, can you send me another one' and hopefully reduces the response 'the cheque's in the mail'

My 2c

But this means that one must work around this (by getting someone else to do it, Internet cafes) and this is still punishing the customer.

So not just by the $1.50 charge - but the flow on effect.




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ajw

ajw
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  #179131 20-Nov-2008 19:44
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zocster:
manhinli:

And of course comes the situation of where someone has no Internet access and gets punished (as described earlier).


Geekzoners with no internet access? Smile in this day and age, everyone has internet, or at least can get access to one. You get SMS notification of it, and you can click on the link on your email to get an 'itemised' bill printed off or looked on your PC. I as a business owner is more than happy to say that I prefer online bill as it eliminate the excuse of 'the postie has misplaced my bill, can you send me another one' and hopefully reduces the response 'the cheque's in the mail'

My 2c


Mobile consumers are already paying some of the highest charges in the OECD and now Vfone wants more money.

 
 
 
 


davidcole
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  #179133 20-Nov-2008 19:58
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The only company that i know that got this kind of right was Westpac, they offered lower fees for online delivery of statements.

Nobody else I know has offered a discount for what saves them money in paper, envelopes and statement development costs.

I agree that VF should offer this as a discount for people that choose it, rather than the other way around, it's just blatant revenue generating, mailed bills have been in place for a while now, and while postal charges have changed recently, they haven't changed that much. There are smarter things VF could be doing with their statements to save on postage rather than charging customer to receive their bill.

What will they do next, charge you to jump on their site since they have to pay for internet access?!!?

/rant off




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richms
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  #179158 20-Nov-2008 23:35
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So are vodafone adding a new charge to existing customers, or are they just stopping to send people a bill without them agreeing to pay the extra charge?

Either way I would consider it a material change in the contract and use it for grounds to get out of it.

Thats if I was stupid enough to enter into a term contract with vodafone, which I am not ;)




Richard rich.ms

TinyTim
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  #179168 21-Nov-2008 07:22
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richms: So are vodafone adding a new charge to existing customers, or are they just stopping to send people a bill without them agreeing to pay the extra charge?

 

They simply stopped sending paper bills. If you want to keep receiving them you have to give them a call, and they'll charge you for them from March.





 

freitasm
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#179169 21-Nov-2008 07:31
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TinyTim:
richms: So are vodafone adding a new charge to existing customers, or are they just stopping to send people a bill without them agreeing to pay the extra charge?


They simply stopped sending paper bills. If you want to keep receiving them you have to give them a call, and they'll charge you for them from March.



Which is just plain idiotic, because I have no doubt that a huge chunk of those 2 million customers have no idea what's going on and will default their payments. I say this because a lot of people I know have no idea - and no interest to know - about how to handle SMS. They don't send or receive. Now and then they comment their phones are showing a little envelope on the display but don't care about it.

This people won't "get" the notifications and won't pay until they are gently reminded by a mute phone.

Whoever thought this idea thought it so badly it hurts. Charging more instead of giving a discount? Fail. Announcing the payment due via SMS? Fail. Thinking people like to save the planet without having no visible benefit? Fail.




 

 

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BobW
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  #179176 21-Nov-2008 08:24
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Many years ago Mercury, an electricity retailer, tried to introduce a 10% penalty for late payment of electricity bills.  There was a loud outcry from customers and consumer advocates, on the basis that such a penalty would hurt those struggling to pay their bills.  Mercury backed down.

A while later, Mercury progressively increased electricity prices then offered a "10% discount for prompt payment" - meaning that if you paid your bill on time then you got a 10% discount, otherwise you didn't.  Customers thought this discount scheme was wonderful, despite the fact that it is essentially the same as a penalty for late payment.

A few years later Mercury suggested that they thought 10% was a bit unfair on customers who paid only a day or two late, so perhaps the whole discount thing should be removed.  Again there was an outcry - this time by customers wanting to keep the discount arrangement.

Now just about every electricity company offers a discount for prompt payment.  As do some other types of businesses.

Moral of the story:  it is all in the packaging.  A fee for receiving paper bills verses a discount for electronic bills might amount to effectively the same price in the long run, but the packages look very different to customers.

 
 
 
 


zocster
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#179177 21-Nov-2008 08:37
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BobW:

Moral of the story:  it is all in the packaging.  A fee for receiving paper bills verses a discount for electronic bills might amount to effectively the same price in the long run, but the packages look very different to customers.


agree the delivery of this is wrong wrong wrong! I didn't get the letter as I have always been online bill customer, but to have a 'compulsary charge' such as this ... a big no no .... no 'incentives' Embarassed

TinyTim
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  #179178 21-Nov-2008 08:41
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BobW:

Moral of the story:  it is all in the packaging.  A fee for receiving paper bills verses a discount for electronic bills might amount to effectively the same price in the long run, but the packages look very different to customers.

 

So why doesn't a company like Vodafone realise this? The shareholder ahead of customers methinks - such a short term view. Look after the customers and the shareholders will take care of themselves.





 

Bung
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  #179179 21-Nov-2008 08:43
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richms: So are vodafone adding a new charge to existing customers, or are they just stopping to send people a bill without them agreeing to pay the extra charge?

Either way I would consider it a material change in the contract and use it for grounds to get out of it.



When you agree to the contract in the first place you assume the position and wait :)

"We may change this Agreement and any free Services at any time.
Changes will be posted on our Website. Please check this regularly for
updates."

sbiddle
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  #179181 21-Nov-2008 09:09
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It's very clear why Vodafone don't want to offer a discount for receiving a paper bill - that's an ARPU loss of $1.50 per customer on the roughly 25% of their customer base that are On Account.
 
By cutting out the paper bills at an estimated cost of $1.50 per customer Vodafone are saving close to $1 million per month (roughly 6000000 customer @ $1.50). This is bottom line profit for them. The fact they are saving this but not passing anything back to their customers really shows it's nothing but a cost cutting exercise to deliver profit in their back pocket.

ARPU is the only key indicator that mobile networks seem to care about. That $1.50 of increased ARPU is very precious to company who's sole focus is on delivering profits based on higher margins/lower usage business model.
 
Vodafone claimed it's not about saving the trees. If it was all about being green they would be donating that money to an organisation that would help the environment and probably received positive media publicity instead of the negative publicity they have received. I am sure somebody like the NZ Conservation Trust would have loved $12 million per year to ensure we still have Kiwi's in NZ in 20 years time.. But no - it's bottom line profits.

How many people here would have sacrificed receiving a paper bill (and paying $1.50 extra per month if they wanted one) if the $1.50 per month that Vodafone *are* saving (sending bills does cost big $$) was donated to a charity? Would you have looked at this whole scenario in a completely different way?

kiwitrc
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  #179183 21-Nov-2008 09:49
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Our company has 12 Vodafone mobiles, averaging about $130 per phone per month. I cant spare the time to log on and download 12 accounts each month, I would be happy to receive the bills as a PDF however, like we do for so many "switched on" companies.

Telecom are flat out right now, testing their new mobiles and network, I know this for a fact. The only reason we have been with Vodafone for the past 16 or so years is international roaming and no one here wants a crappy Telecom mobile, however once the new phones and network are available we will have a choice. I know $1.50 isnt much money wise but its the attitude that gets me here.

Vodafone seems to be almost run like a city council these days, stupid decisions from people who seem to think they have a monopoly.

jesseycy
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  #179186 21-Nov-2008 10:20
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The concept of this isn't wrong....  A business wanting to cut costs, fair enough.... 

PR-wise, horribly done.

Similar to charging $1 for 777 calls, why don't you frame such charges this way:


#1:  We now offer a $1.5 discount for customers not wanting paper bills AND paying by direct debit on invoice date.  If you do some calculations, you'll probably find that Vodafone receiving payment before the "payment due date" (which is another 15 or so extra days after invoice date) would probably even out your costs, even if only 30% of customers adopted this change.

And what about "making the waters murky"???  For example, charging for 777 calls, charging for bills, etc.  Qualify everything with a "may"....  It'll certainly help you solve a lot of PR headaches...  

VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #179187 21-Nov-2008 10:25

kiwitrc: Our company has 12 Vodafone mobiles, averaging about $130 per phone per month. I cant spare the time to log on and download 12 accounts each month, I would be happy to receive the bills as a PDF however, like we do for so many "switched on" companies.

Telecom are flat out right now, testing their new mobiles and network, I know this for a fact. The only reason we have been with Vodafone for the past 16 or so years is international roaming and no one here wants a crappy Telecom mobile, however once the new phones and network are available we will have a choice. I know $1.50 isnt much money wise but its the attitude that gets me here.

Vodafone seems to be almost run like a city council these days, stupid decisions from people who seem to think they have a monopoly.


Most business users won't be affected by this. It's only for consumer on account (or for those businesses that don't tell us they're businesses, eg small office/home office).

Did you get the letter saying we were doing this?

Also, it doesn't kick in until next year - March at the earliest I believe.

Cheers

paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


kiwitrc
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  #179188 21-Nov-2008 10:34
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PaulBrislen:
kiwitrc: Our company has 12 Vodafone mobiles, averaging about $130 per phone per month. I cant spare the time to log on and download 12 accounts each month, I would be happy to receive the bills as a PDF however, like we do for so many "switched on" companies.

Telecom are flat out right now, testing their new mobiles and network, I know this for a fact. The only reason we have been with Vodafone for the past 16 or so years is international roaming and no one here wants a crappy Telecom mobile, however once the new phones and network are available we will have a choice. I know $1.50 isnt much money wise but its the attitude that gets me here.

Vodafone seems to be almost run like a city council these days, stupid decisions from people who seem to think they have a monopoly.


Most business users won't be affected by this. It's only for consumer on account (or for those businesses that don't tell us they're businesses, eg small office/home office).

Did you get the letter saying we were doing this?

Also, it doesn't kick in until next year - March at the earliest I believe.

Cheers

paul


My apologies for the misunderstanding.

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