Vodafone TV retirement plan: September 2022

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2381 posts

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#2836544 21-Dec-2021 22:39

quickymart:

Not very ethical selling something that you know will be basically useless in 12 months, is it?

It remains to be seen if it remains "useless" or gets a firmware that allows it to continue to be used in some way.

heapsort

245 posts

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#2836576 22-Dec-2021 06:53

While I have no intention of selling my two units, I'm not convinced it is unethical to be selling them second hand given VF has announced there will be some sort of refund scheme. Of course, it would be best if any seller makes sure a potential buyer is aware of that.

The details are yet to be announced, but it seems likely that the date of original purchase will be a factor, so if that listing was for a unit purchased brand new very recently then $120 might actually be a rather good price.

eracode

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#2836578 22-Dec-2021 07:12

heapsort:

While I have no intention of selling my two units, I'm not convinced it is unethical to be selling them second hand given VF has announced there will be some sort of refund scheme. Of course, it would be best if any seller makes sure a potential buyer is aware of that.

The details are yet to be announced, but it seems likely that the date of original purchase will be a factor, so if that listing was for a unit purchased brand new very recently then $120 might actually be a rather good price.

VF have said that the refund will be available to people who bought the VTV from an authorised VF retailer. If someone buys one secondhand they may be unable to get the refund.

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tripp

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#2836589 22-Dec-2021 08:27

So sorted out what i will use now for live tv. Was able to sideload the freeview app onto my google tv. No restart of a tv program etc but lets me still watch the news :)

blackjack17

1704 posts

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#2836592 22-Dec-2021 08:42

What are the specs of the VTV like compared with say the mi box s? Would it even be possible to run something like android tv on the VTV?

Mi box S

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ukoda

56 posts

Master Geek

#2836600 22-Dec-2021 09:07

blackjack17:

What are the specs of the VTV like compared with say the mi box s? Would it even be possible to run something like android tv on the VTV?

Mi box S

Those specs look pretty average but leave off the most important spec, which SoC it is. For example I would avoid AllWinner, those guys suck to deal with, Rockchip is ok if you have a reasonable amount of spare time but personally I like Amlogic as they are usually the easiest to get working.

I would be interested to know which Android app actually works with Freeview. The best I have found so far is Kodi with the "PVR IPTV Simple Client" add on pointed to http://i.mjh.nz/nz/raw-tv.m3u8.

I have found Android STBes are bit flaky long term so a STB that supports LibreELEC is a better way to run Kodi and the AMlogic S905 SoC is a good choice for that.

Now if Vodafone would support installing LibreELEC I would be very happy as the VTV box appears to be good quality hardware and the RF remote is so much better than an IR one.

blackjack17

1704 posts

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#2836605 22-Dec-2021 09:11

ukoda:

blackjack17:

What are the specs of the VTV like compared with say the mi box s? Would it even be possible to run something like android tv on the VTV?

Mi box S

Those specs look pretty average but leave off the most important spec, which SoC it is. For example I would avoid AllWinner, those guys suck to deal with, Rockchip is ok if you have a reasonable amount of spare time but personally I like Amlogic as they are usually the easiest to get working.

I would be interested to know which Android app actually works with Freeview. The best I have found so far is Kodi with the "PVR IPTV Simple Client" add on pointed to http://i.mjh.nz/nz/raw-tv.m3u8.

I have found Android STBes are bit flaky long term so a STB that supports LibreELEC is a better way to run Kodi and the AMlogic S905 SoC is a good choice for that.

Now if Vodafone would support installing LibreELEC I would be very happy as the VTV box appears to be good quality hardware and the RF remote is so much better than an IR one.

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gustov

197 posts

Master Geek

#2836608 22-Dec-2021 09:22

ukoda:

quickymart:

Not very ethical selling something that you know will be basically useless in 12 months, is it?

No, I agree it is not really ethical, but they still sell ICE cars with a straight face. While I would feel sorry for anyone not in the know buying it at that price but that is hardly reason to trying to have the listing pulled, there are plenty of other rip off items on Trade Me they won't act on. The main issue I see with that listing is the price, I would have suggested $20 to $50 would be more reasonable.

Vodafone's decision raises the wider issue of anyone relying on "the cloud", for anything

If a company can make a commercial decision to abandon a service after such a brief period (3 years?) what does this say about anyone who whose uses a cloud backup service to store precious data? What happens when the company goes out of business? I have one of those "lifetime" 10TB cloud backup services but I would never rely on that alone, I have a NAS sitting in a family's member's home across town where there is no chance of them going out of business.

When we set up our business 15 years ago we bought MYOB software - came with a disk and we stored our financial on our PC, all worked fine. Then when Windows 10 came along MYOB wrote saying we must buy the latest $500 version of MYOB as our current XP-era version would no longer work. That was a complete lie, our original MYOB worked just fine on W10.

Then last year MYOB call again saying please upgrade for free to latest version it has so many new features and everything is stored in the cloud not on your own PC anymore. In the small print after 12 months they charge $55 a month to your credit card to keep using it. We never used the upgrade but exactly a year later MYOB started charging $55 a month to our credit card, we could never get through on the phone to them to stop this nonsense and in the end my wife had to go to our bank to have the charges reversed but she then also had to be issued a new credit card so that MYOB could no longer charge us. What a hassle. And recently MYOB have written saying because our monthly bill is unpaid they have locked our access to our financial accounts that are in the cloud (not that we ever had them there).

So I mention all this in relation to Vodafone TV - you simply should not rely on a company acting ethically when you have to use their cloud service and they have all the control. The moral is: don't rely on "on-demand" TV services (instead buy a PVR recorder), don't rely on cloud storage as your only backup, and never use a company like MYOB that indulges in sharp business practices to hook people into unnecessary upgrades that they then want to charge you a monthly fee, to keep using.

ukoda

56 posts

Master Geek

#2836610 22-Dec-2021 09:26

blackjack17:

That is a good platform to work with. As per my earlier post LibreELEC would be the best option if you can get it to work. From memory you need to correctly prepare a SD card and press a hidden switch with a toothpick in the AV connector to boot it into recovery mode.

blackjack17

1704 posts

Uber Geek

#2836612 22-Dec-2021 09:29

ukoda:

blackjack17:

That is a good platform to work with. As per my earlier post LibreELEC would be the best option if you can get it to work. From memory you need to correctly prepare a SD card and press a hidden switch with a toothpick in the AV connector to boot it into recovery mode.

That is the hardware of the mi box s. Was wondering what the VTV is and how it compares

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ukoda

56 posts

Master Geek

#2836668 22-Dec-2021 09:40

gustov:

Vodafone's decision raises the wider issue of anyone relying on "the cloud", for anything

If a company can make a commercial decision to abandon a service after such a brief period (3 years?) what does this say about anyone who whose uses a cloud backup service to store precious data? What happens when the company goes out of business? I have one of those "lifetime" 10TB cloud backup services but I would never rely on that alone, I have a NAS sitting in a family's member's home across town where there is no chance of them going out of business.

.......

So I mention all this in relation to Vodafone TV - you simply should not rely on a company acting ethically when you have to use their cloud service and they have all the control. The moral is: don't rely on "on-demand" TV services (instead buy a PVR recorder), don't rely on cloud storage as your only backup, and never use a company like MYOB that indulges in sharp business practices to hook people into unnecessary upgrades that they then want to charge you a monthly fee, to keep using.

Well this is a modern dilemma. Cloud service make life easy, as long as you have a working credit card. I do not use any cloud services for anything important to me but boy it is a lot of work. Try running you own email server and watch what happens when you try to email someone with a cloud based email, they treat you as if you have dog poo on your shoe.

There is no easy answer, you either pay with you credit card or pay with your personal time.

ukoda

56 posts

Master Geek

#2836690 22-Dec-2021 09:57

blackjack17:

That is the hardware of the mi box s. Was wondering what the VTV is and how it compares

That is a good question, who wants to be first to earn geek points by opening their VTV and posting photos?

Vodafone have already indicated in this thread that the VTV has some security around software installs so a lot will depend on the SoC. Most SoCs have core firmware on chip to allow bricked recovery and factory programming. Worst case you can usually use tweeters to disable the eMMC to stop it booting its normal code and force it in to recovery mode and from there use factory software tools to completely overwrite the flash.

That is not the kind of stuff a novice does, so it would be much nicer if Vodafone offer some signed software to provide basic functionality or to allow replacement of their software without opening the box.

rugrat

3100 posts

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#2836700 22-Dec-2021 10:04

gustov:

So I mention all this in relation to Vodafone TV - you simply should not rely on a company acting ethically when you have to use their cloud service and they have all the control. The moral is: don't rely on "on-demand" TV services (instead buy a PVR recorder), don't rely on cloud storage as your only backup, and never use a company like MYOB that indulges in sharp business practices to hook people into unnecessary upgrades that they then want to charge you a monthly fee, to keep using.

I feel comfortable with buying movies off Apple TV, even though they have all the control. Though I would be shocked if suddenly lose access, or have to pay to access content brought outright.

quickymart

13791 posts

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#2836706 22-Dec-2021 10:10

gustov:

When we set up our business 15 years ago we bought MYOB software - came with a disk and we stored our financial on our PC, all worked fine. Then when Windows 10 came along MYOB wrote saying we must buy the latest $500 version of MYOB as our current XP-era version would no longer work. That was a complete lie, our original MYOB worked just fine on W10.

Then last year MYOB call again saying please upgrade for free to latest version it has so many new features and everything is stored in the cloud not on your own PC anymore. In the small print after 12 months they charge $55 a month to your credit card to keep using it. We never used the upgrade but exactly a year later MYOB started charging $55 a month to our credit card, we could never get through on the phone to them to stop this nonsense and in the end my wife had to go to our bank to have the charges reversed but she then also had to be issued a new credit card so that MYOB could no longer charge us. What a hassle. And recently MYOB have written saying because our monthly bill is unpaid they have locked our access to our financial accounts that are in the cloud (not that we ever had them there).

Unrelated but wow, sounds like MYOB must be really desperate for money these days if that's how they're doing things. I'd send them something on Facebook to ask what the hell they're doing if you can't reach them on the phone.

blackjack17

1704 posts

Uber Geek

#2836707 22-Dec-2021 10:11

ukoda:

blackjack17:

That is the hardware of the mi box s. Was wondering what the VTV is and how it compares

That is a good question, who wants to be first to earn geek points by opening their VTV and posting photos?

Vodafone have already indicated in this thread that the VTV has some security around software installs so a lot will depend on the SoC. Most SoCs have core firmware on chip to allow bricked recovery and factory programming. Worst case you can usually use tweeters to disable the eMMC to stop it booting its normal code and force it in to recovery mode and from there use factory software tools to completely overwrite the flash.

That is not the kind of stuff a novice does, so it would be much nicer if Vodafone offer some signed software to provide basic functionality or to allow replacement of their software without opening the box.

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