Vodafone TV retirement plan: September 2022

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156 posts

Master Geek

#2887611 17-Mar-2022 15:30

Taking Vodafone to the Disputes Tribunal will cost $45 and it's my understanding that you can't claim the filing fee back, even if you win your case.

So is anyone's time to do all of that and turn up for a hearing worth the difference of $34 /$59? Lawyers were indeed involved in their refund tiers.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
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#2887624 17-Mar-2022 15:59

@Klysznz:

Not really happy at all, and I wonder if this is a breach of the Consumer Guarantees Act. If I purchase something I expect it to last a lot longer than 2 years, and I think that is reasonable.

I activated my VTV on the 28th June 2020, so only a $75 refund. This isn't enough for me to purchase a replacement product.

How much did you pay for it?

IceFragmatic

88 posts

Master Geek

#2887680 17-Mar-2022 16:11

Wellingtondave:

Taking Vodafone to the Disputes Tribunal will cost $45 and it's my understanding that you can't claim the filing fee back, even if you win your case.

So is anyone's time to do all of that and turn up for a hearing worth the difference of $34 /$59? Lawyers were indeed involved in their refund tiers.

Or we complete a petition to let Vodafone know how many unhappy users there are (since they have not provided a way to complain). I am sure if there are enough people that a lawyer may be keen to get involved.

To accomplish this, I have set up a change.org page. I would suggest as many people with devices sign it. I am sure with enough names that we should have a valid case with regards to CGA and the Commerce Commission

https://www.change.org/VodafoneTV

John

**edit** amended link to something easier to remember

IceFragmatic

88 posts

Master Geek

#2887683 17-Mar-2022 16:15

freitasm:

@Klysznz:

Not really happy at all, and I wonder if this is a breach of the Consumer Guarantees Act. If I purchase something I expect it to last a lot longer than 2 years, and I think that is reasonable.

I activated my VTV on the 28th June 2020, so only a $75 refund. This isn't enough for me to purchase a replacement product.

How much did you pay for it?

$189 and in Oct I almost purchased a second one for my Bedroom.

antonknee

1133 posts

Uber Geek

#2887684 17-Mar-2022 16:16

I am curious if any of the Vodafone people who lurk this thread (Jason, Hamish, etc) will respond to the criticism over the refund issue.

Wellingtondave:

Taking Vodafone to the Disputes Tribunal will cost $45 and it's my understanding that you can't claim the filing fee back, even if you win your case.

So is anyone's time to do all of that and turn up for a hearing worth the difference of $34 /$59? Lawyers were indeed involved in their refund tiers.

Correct yes, you wouldn't get the filing fee back and your hourly rate would work out quite low... but that's not really the point.

Given this service is going away because of poor uptake (essentially), I would imagine they've spent more on engaging lawyers to figure out how little money they can refund than they would have on just giving everyone who bought the thing a full refund.

Edited to add, also really? A single day's difference in activation date means I get $80 more? Obviously there's going to be a cut off point somewhere but that's really just all the more reason it should be a full refund to all.

sansom

421 posts

Ultimate Geek

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One NZ

#2887805 17-Mar-2022 17:20

Hi guys, we have been listening and I have been talking with the team about the points you've raised around the VodafoneTV buy back and refunds.

Our response:

The buy back is only available to customers who purchased a Gen 2 Standalone VodafoneTV box (Gen1 boxes were only used for the Bundled VodafoneTV service and provided free for customers to use with their broadband)
We absolutely consulted with our legal team to get guidance and best practice on the expected life of a streaming product to calculate refunds. The recommendation provided was for a tech product of this kind was “up to 4 years”, which we have used the top end estimate for our refund program. Note the "life" does not relate to how long the electronics work for as the product consists of hardware and network supplied services.
The refund values are based on this expected life of this type of product and the number of months the customer has been able to use the box since purchase, which includes the period right up until the service actually closes in Sept 2022 (not the December announcement date). As I’m sure you’ll be aware, there is a significant cost to this program, but we’ve tried to be as generous as possible and put our customer’s needs front and centre.
Based on when we stopped selling VodafoneTV boxes prior to the announcement in December, by the time the service is shutdown customers will have had a minimum of 12 months of use and up to 36 months for the early buyers.
The vast majority of boxes were sold in the first 2.5 years after the launch of Standalone VodafoneTV in September 2019, with very few in the last 12 months and most at promo pricing of $149. However we have used the top end of the scale and calculated the buy-back value based on the full $179 RRP price regardless of what promo price a customer actually paid.

The decision to close VodafoneTV wasn’t an easy one for any of us who were involved in launching it, and our key driver for the shut-down process has been to do this in the most supportive and fair way possible for customers.

We gave a really long notice period (nearly 10 months) to allow customers plenty of time to consider and select other solutions to watch their TV and content. We are supporting less tech savvy customers with helpful tools online that will recommend some alternative options and working closely with Sky to transition those subscribers to them. We are offering refunds upfront, rather than waiting until the actual shutdown in September and making the process really simple by not requiring a proof of purchase and refunding based on full RRP rather than the price paid which in many cases is significantly less - This would have actually been the cheaper option for Vodafone, but more hassle for customers, so we have avoided doing that.

It’s always going to be tough to please everyone, but we really believe we are being fair and putting customers at the heart of this work.

Happy to take questions back to the team and will check my inbox if you want to DM me instead.

Regards

Hamish

IceFragmatic

88 posts

Master Geek

#2887810 17-Mar-2022 17:32

sansom:

Hi guys, we have been listening and I have been talking with the team about the points you've raised around the VodafoneTV buy back and refunds.

Our response:

The buy back is only available to customers who purchased a Gen 2 Standalone VodafoneTV box (Gen1 boxes were only used for the Bundled VodafoneTV service and provided free for customers to use with their broadband)
We absolutely consulted with our legal team to get guidance and best practice on the expected life of a streaming product to calculate refunds. The recommendation provided was for a tech product of this kind was “up to 4 years”, which we have used the top end estimate for our refund program. Note the "life" does not relate to how long the electronics work for as the product consists of hardware and network supplied services.
The refund values are based on this expected life of this type of product and the number of months the customer has been able to use the box since purchase, which includes the period right up until the service actually closes in Sept 2022 (not the December announcement date). As I’m sure you’ll be aware, there is a significant cost to this program, but we’ve tried to be as generous as possible and put our customer’s needs front and centre.
Based on when we stopped selling VodafoneTV boxes prior to the announcement in December, by the time the service is shutdown customers will have had a minimum of 12 months of use and up to 36 months for the early buyers.
The vast majority of boxes were sold in the first 2.5 years after the launch of Standalone VodafoneTV in September 2019, with very few in the last 12 months and most at promo pricing of $149. However we have used the top end of the scale and calculated the buy-back value based on the full $179 RRP price regardless of what promo price a customer actually paid.

The decision to close VodafoneTV wasn’t an easy one for any of us who were involved in launching it, and our key driver for the shut-down process has been to do this in the most supportive and fair way possible for customers.

We gave a really long notice period (nearly 10 months) to allow customers plenty of time to consider and select other solutions to watch their TV and content. We are supporting less tech savvy customers with helpful tools online that will recommend some alternative options and working closely with Sky to transition those subscribers to them. We are offering refunds upfront, rather than waiting until the actual shutdown in September and making the process really simple by not requiring a proof of purchase and refunding based on full RRP rather than the price paid which in many cases is significantly less - This would have actually been the cheaper option for Vodafone, but more hassle for customers, so we have avoided doing that.

It’s always going to be tough to please everyone, but we really believe we are being fair and putting customers at the heart of this work.

Happy to take questions back to the team and will check my inbox if you want to DM me instead.

Regards

Hamish

OK. Let imagine this was a car you sold - and you are the only ones that sold the fuel.

We paid $40k for the car. 2 years later you say you are not selling the fuel. Can you see why people are upset when you only offer them $12k to "buy the car back".

You sold a device with a bundled service. You then remove the service and think you can get away with pro rater'ing the service over only 4 years.

4 years is a incredibly low period for a consumer device. Most set top boxes are in use for well over 10 years and therefore this should be the timeframe used. I am confident this would be backed up by CGA.

As mentioned, I will likely refuse your offer, wait till the service is cancelled then take the device back to Noel Leemings. I am sure their lawyers will have deeper pockets than me. Especially if others do the same thing.

John

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IceFragmatic

88 posts

Master Geek

#2887815 17-Mar-2022 17:46

Also in relation to reply by Vodafone - if we used the 4 year case for a "device and service" then I guess many Google Minis and Amazon Dots are due to be thrown out in the next 12 months. How many TVs should be immediately thrown out?

If we just look at service - then Facebook, Gmail, Hotmail are well over their lifespan.

Fact is you did not plan the product and service well. You could have introduced a revenue stream. Charge for the ability to record, or insert ads before playing a recording.

I am sorry, but $100 for 18months of Freeview is not acceptable. yes there are other options, and if I had known your plans when I purchased by unit last year I would have bought something else.

**Edit**

Sky have also been around more than 4 years. So please do not use the product and service argument. Fact is you got your pricing model very wrong.

With regards to Sky, My parents got one of the Sky+ boxes outright. Sky did NOT go back to them 4 years later and ask them to pay extra for the recording service.

Apsattv

2380 posts

Uber Geek

#2887817 17-Mar-2022 17:58

A solution could be vodafone whip up a quick app and new firmware to redirect the linear feeds to the Freeview ones. Making the box stiill usable and no longer an ewaste paperweight.

Klysznz

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2887845 17-Mar-2022 19:10

How did your lawyers come up with the four years? was the four years clearly stated and disclosured on the product when it was sold?

Apple support thier devices for 7 years, and this information is easily avilable to consumer when purchasing a device.

Where can we send formal complaints, to ensure this is resolved fairly? otherwise I will be contacting MBIE, Local MP, and the NZ Herald.

Xeon

302 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2887849 17-Mar-2022 19:27

Vodafone will still have to honour CGA, so presumably everyone can get their purchase price refunded if they request a CGA claim?

snowfly

543 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2887866 17-Mar-2022 19:59

Sounds like there are a few (small minority?) entitled / disgruntled users about the refund, I'm just happy that there is a refund at all!

I paid $99 for the device on special (did anyone actually pay full retail?), have used it for two years, and I'll get a $75 refund.
Effectively this has only cost me $24 to use the service for two years, pretty good value if you ask me, when you look at all the other services that people pay monthly for.

Just my two cents worth.

alasta

6687 posts

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#2887889 17-Mar-2022 20:46

Personally I'm pretty happy to be getting $75 for a product that I shoved into a cupboard and forgot about two years ago.

Hiamie

354 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2887902 17-Mar-2022 21:20

I would be quite happy to pay a monthly fee of, say $20, if they just left the whole thing running like it is.

And I would imagine I'm not alone. I imagine there may be tens of thousands of viewers that would think similar.

The convenience of multiple small set top boxes, all linked/synced on the same account, being able to play almost anything from the last 3 days and thus skip the horrible ads (ads are why I left SkyTV years ago with no regrets), no need for UHF Antenna or satellite dish, bluetooth remote, youtube built in etc etc.

$20 a month is well worth it for all that, in my opinion.

quickymart

13785 posts

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#2887910 17-Mar-2022 21:31

They won't do that though, as they've already said the technology and/or platform is end-of-life. I doubt anyone would want to pay $20 a month if (due to it being end-of-life) it started failing or not being reliable. Then you would get people jumping up and down demanding their $20 back.

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