Ghost fibre connection / address error

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › Ghost fibre connection / address error

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#3068969 28-Apr-2023 17:32

Wheelbarrow01:

The conclusion I have drawn is that the address is correct in all systems, we did install fibre in 2018, and it was likely tampered with in mid 2022 - when it was either fully or partially removed by the previous owners and/or their contractors performing the renovation, and I found a "dying gasp" alarm for the ONT in mid 2022 - this means the ONT went offline and never came back. The previous owners never contacted Chorus to advise it had been removed, or to arrange to have it reinstated. They then sold the property without any corrective action being taken.

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Wheelbarrow01

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#3068974 28-Apr-2023 17:46

capresesalad:

Could you point me to the statutory provision that's your legal basis for charging me as well, please?

I'm a problem solver. A fixer if you will. I see people with an issue and I try to find the root cause and provide a solution to the immediate problem - at least from a technical or operational aspect. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of our terms & conditions and it is not my role to speak publically on Chorus' behalf on such matters.

What I can do is point you to the applicable answer on our website:

In your case, no bill has been generated yet so there is no action for you to take at this time. But if and when you do receive a bill from Chorus, you can take the action outlined above, and our billing team will deal with the matter in good faith and with due consideration of the facts. I am more than happy for you to contact me at that time and I will provide any additional context I can to our billing team.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

capresesalad

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#3068977 28-Apr-2023 17:57

Thank you!🙏

nztim

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#3068985 28-Apr-2023 19:16

Wheelbarrow01:

Unfortunately because fibre installation is "free", there is often no value placed on our network by homeowners. This means they tend to rip it out with no thought as to what it costs to reinstate. The government only subsidises the first installation. Any reinstatement is charged at the full cost of the work as no subsidy applies.

Home owners/builders/renovators need to understand you actually do pay for the first Install through your taxes

I wish the first fibre install wasn't tax pay funded, then there more respect be placed on the network.

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

xpd

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#3068989 28-Apr-2023 19:44

I'd take action now before a bill is generated...... get all the paperwork/evidence you can and present it - save everyone some time and admin work.

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#3068990 28-Apr-2023 20:03

nztim:

Wheelbarrow01:

Unfortunately because fibre installation is "free", there is often no value placed on our network by homeowners. This means they tend to rip it out with no thought as to what it costs to reinstate. The government only subsidises the first installation. Any reinstatement is charged at the full cost of the work as no subsidy applies.

Home owners/builders/renovators need to understand you actually do pay for the first Install through your taxes

I wish the first fibre install wasn't tax pay funded, then there more respect be placed on the network.

I don't want to comment on the original issue/finding other than to say Wheelbarrow01 has done some fantastic work to get to the bottom of this - above and beyond his day job for sure

There is a common misconception mentioned a couple of times in this thread...

Actually, there is no tax-payer/govt funded/subsidised install, there never has been.

The free installs were all performed by and paid for by Chorus. Initially, this was going to be a certain subset or time bound (I forget which, so don't quote me). However, as time has progressed, Chorus has continued to not charge customers for standard UFB installations.
But, don't be fooled - it was, and is, Chorus money.

capresesalad

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#3068991 28-Apr-2023 20:10

wratterus:

Bit late now, but in an ideal world this would have been one of those things that was inspected before purchase & was put as a condition to get the previous owner to resolve. It is something that people will become more aware of over time. I'd be interested to know the un-subsided cost of this type of repair.

Yep, didn't think to look because didn't know that people ripped them out..... do now.

First home buyer also.

hsvhel

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#3069040 28-Apr-2023 20:38

@BMarquis

There was never a rebate per address from the Govt?

Chorus bore the costs of connection out of goodwill? and there was never any cost recovery?

Seems odd

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nzkc

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#3069041 28-Apr-2023 20:42

nztim:

Home owners/builders/renovators need to understand you actually do pay for the first Install through your taxes

I wish the first fibre install wasn't tax pay funded, then there more respect be placed on the network.

Agree with the first statement.

Do not agree with the second. If it was not funded through taxes I'm not sure we ever would have got as good a network as UFB has turned out to be. Im not convinced Chorus (and others) would have bothered running fibre down residential streets as people would never have paid for the cost to hook it up to their house. Simply no economy in it for the suppliers. So why would they - and I wouldnt blame them for this position.

On the otherhand what I would have preferred to have seen is that once the install was completed we received a notice of the cost it would have been with a credit line for that cost. Effectively a $0 invoice I suppose. Then many would have seen the value of what they have received even though they had already paid it in their taxes.

nzkc

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#3069043 28-Apr-2023 20:45

BMarquis:

Actually, there is no tax-payer/govt funded/subsidised install, there never has been.

The free installs were all performed by and paid for by Chorus. Initially, this was going to be a certain subset or time bound (I forget which, so don't quote me). However, as time has progressed, Chorus has continued to not charge customers for standard UFB installations.
But, don't be fooled - it was, and is, Chorus money.

Then what exactly was the $1.8bn of government money that went into the UFB project for? I get that figure from here: https://www.mbie.govt.nz/about/news/ultra-fast-broadband-roll-out-now-complete/

You really need to explain your position.

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#3069046 28-Apr-2023 20:50

hsvhel:

@BMarquis

There was never a rebate per address from the Govt?

Chorus bore the costs of connection out of goodwill? and there was never any cost recovery?

Seems odd

https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/fact-sheet-agreement-with-chorus.pdf

CFH’s contract with Chorus uses an Alternative Commercial Model, as contemplated by the UFB
Invitation To Participate (ITP). The agreement between CFH and Chorus involves a 50/50 debt/
equity instrument as the mechanism of the Crown’s funding support for UFB deployment. As with
other UFB contracts, CFH funds the cost of fibre “passing” (the connection running down the street)
as it is completed and signed off to specifications, and then it becomes operational. Chorus funds
each “drop”, the connection from the premise to the fibre in the street, as it hooks customers up.
This arrangement retains an overall pro rata per premise funding allocation.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3069051 28-Apr-2023 21:31

My understanding with bills like this is that simply saying "I dispute this" is sufficient. After that, the people sending the bill need to give you solid information on the bill, why they're billing you etc. - and that's often enough for them to go "oops, sorry".

After that, if you still dispute it, they need to take you to court. Where it would be laughed out. But engaging once they've detailed the bill will probably help you in court.

Wheelbarrow01

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#3069066 28-Apr-2023 23:25

BMarquis:

https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/fact-sheet-agreement-with-chorus.pdf

CFH’s contract with Chorus uses an Alternative Commercial Model, as contemplated by the UFB
Invitation To Participate (ITP). The agreement between CFH and Chorus involves a 50/50 debt/
equity instrument as the mechanism of the Crown’s funding support for UFB deployment. As with
other UFB contracts, CFH funds the cost of fibre “passing” (the connection running down the street)
as it is completed and signed off to specifications, and then it becomes operational. Chorus funds
each “drop”, the connection from the premise to the fibre in the street, as it hooks customers up.
This arrangement retains an overall pro rata per premise funding allocation.

Thanks Brent. I'm not too proud to admit that even I didn't fully comprehend the funding complexities up until now. I'll lock that little nugget away in the memory bank 😀

Probably too late to edit my earlier posts in this thread since my words have already been quoted in several responses.

Everyone - please forget everything I ever said about "govt subsidies", in this or any previous thread (there may have been a few over the years) 😎

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

Jase2985

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#3069083 29-Apr-2023 08:16

BMarquis:

hsvhel:

@BMarquis

There was never a rebate per address from the Govt?

Chorus bore the costs of connection out of goodwill? and there was never any cost recovery?

Seems odd

https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/fact-sheet-agreement-with-chorus.pdf

CFH’s contract with Chorus uses an Alternative Commercial Model, as contemplated by the UFB
Invitation To Participate (ITP). The agreement between CFH and Chorus involves a 50/50 debt/
equity instrument as the mechanism of the Crown’s funding support for UFB deployment. As with
other UFB contracts, CFH funds the cost of fibre “passing” (the connection running down the street)
as it is completed and signed off to specifications, and then it becomes operational. Chorus funds
each “drop”, the connection from the premise to the fibre in the street, as it hooks customers up.
This arrangement retains an overall pro rata per premise funding allocation.

that will explain why chorus changed their instillation methods a few years back from conduit to stapling it to a fence and slot trenching/direct burial under soft landscaping. Had to cut costs of the installs somewhere.

Bung

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#3069092 29-Apr-2023 08:28

Wheelbarrow01:
Everyone - please forget everything I ever said about "govt subsidies", in this or any previous thread (there may have been a few over the years) 😎

Don't beat yourself up. The websites of at least 2Degrees and Voyager have used the term "subsidised" in relation to install cost.

Critics of the Chorus copper pricing were calling it a $600m subsidy of the fibre install.

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