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  Reply # 302064 25-Feb-2010 13:23
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johnr:
Geektastic: For example, on the iPhone page on VF's website, surely it should say

"Please note - the iPhone will not work in 3G outside major cities in NZ due to network constraints."


ITS NOT A NETWORK CONSTRAINT!!!




Why not? The design of the network constrains the device from working.





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Reply # 302069 25-Feb-2010 13:30
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Geektastic:
johnr:
Geektastic: For example, on the iPhone page on VF's website, surely it should say

"Please note - the iPhone will not work in 3G outside major cities in NZ due to network constraints."


ITS NOT A NETWORK CONSTRAINT!!!




Why not? The design of the network constrains the device from working.


The device made by Apple does not support 900mhz UMTS

The Vodafone NZ network supports 900/2100mhz UMTS

John

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 302075 25-Feb-2010 13:40
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Geektastic:
johnr:
Geektastic: For example, on the iPhone page on VF's website, surely it should say

"Please note - the iPhone will not work in 3G outside major cities in NZ due to network constraints."


ITS NOT A NETWORK CONSTRAINT!!!




Why not? The design of the network constrains the device from working.


That's a bit like saying the XT network is broken because my E71 that supports 900/2100 doesn't work outside the major cities that have XT 2100 coverage.

It is not a network issue, it's a handset issue.

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  Reply # 302077 25-Feb-2010 13:41
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pretty sure its a handset constraint Geektastic.. iPhone was built for the American markets (850+2100). Personally I would not buy a $1200 device without doing a little research myself.



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  Reply # 302084 25-Feb-2010 13:52
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It just depends on which side of the coin you look at.

I say the network design is arguably constraining how you use it. It is similar to designing a road that only cars with 4 doors can use.

A 3G network should be 3G everywhere it has a signal with every handset officially available in that market.

Seems simple enough to me. Otherwise it isn't a 3G network and should not be described as such. It's a partially 3G network depending on which handset you use.





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  Reply # 302085 25-Feb-2010 13:56
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We have tried you are the only one saying its a network issue!!

I am moving on now and I will stop wasting my time

John



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  Reply # 302087 25-Feb-2010 13:59
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Blindspot: pretty sure its a handset constraint Geektastic.. iPhone was built for the American markets (850+2100). Personally I would not buy a $1200 device without doing a little research myself.



I consider asking the Vodafone shop staff if my new phone will work in Martinborough should be adequate research from the average consumer pov.


Most consumers are not geeks - I suspect that 80% of users have no idea that these issues exist and little understanding why. I've just asked 14 people and not one of them had a clue - yet they are all intelligent professional people, not dole bludgers with no education.


The general response was "well, if it says it's 3G surely it should be 3G".


The "man on the Clapham omnibus" (to borrow from Greer LJ) is not a geek. He buys a phone that says 3G, asks if it will work on the 3G network where he lives and when told that it will by the network representative selling him said phone, he is entitled to expect it to do just that.





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  Reply # 302089 25-Feb-2010 14:04
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Geektastic: It just depends on which side of the coin you look at.

I say the network design is arguably constraining how you use it. It is similar to designing a road that only cars with 4 doors can use.

A 3G network should be 3G everywhere it has a signal with every handset officially available in that market.

Seems simple enough to me. Otherwise it isn't a 3G network and should not be described as such. It's a partially 3G network depending on which handset you use.


It's very similair to building a road that only 4 doors can use, however if you have 2 doors you can still use the road, but to use the fast lane you need 4 doors.

It's just unfortunate that most manufacturers make cars these days with 4 doors. Apple make a car with 2 doors so it won't work. I'm sure their next model will have 4 doors.

You need to take a few steps back and understand that NZ is one of only a handful of countries in the world that even have nationwide 3G. If you look in the US many areas are GSM outside the 3G coverage areas, in all of Europe there is not nationwide 3G and many people still have to use GSM.

Apple have chosen to build a handset that was designed for North American 3G frequencies. If you want nationwide 3G coverage in NZ there are plenty of other handsets that will deliver this for you. Vodafone have claimed every handset you buy will deliver nationwide 3G coverage and have clearly split the 3G coverage areas into 3G broadband and 3G extended.








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  Reply # 302090 25-Feb-2010 14:05
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johnr: We have tried you are the only one saying its a network issue!!

I am moving on now and I will stop wasting my time

John



That does not make me wrong any more than it made Gallilleo wrong!


If the network supported that standard, the phone would work. Therefore the network is equally at fault.


At best, fault is neither the networks nor the phone but shared equally.


However even then I bias it to the network because I do not believe that they are adequately transparent in their marketing of those handsets that have limited use because of the frequency etc of the network.





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  Reply # 302091 25-Feb-2010 14:06
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We've already had this exact same discussion a few months ago

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=76&TopicId=42394


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  Reply # 302092 25-Feb-2010 14:06
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The iphone 3G does work on the Vodafone Network 2G / 3G not 3G extended

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  Reply # 302157 25-Feb-2010 16:03
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johnr:
Geektastic:
johnr:
Geektastic: For example, on the iPhone page on VF's website, surely it should say

"Please note - the iPhone will not work in 3G outside major cities in NZ due to network constraints."


ITS NOT A NETWORK CONSTRAINT!!!



Why not? The design of the network constrains the device from working.


The device made by Apple does not support 900mhz UMTS

The Vodafone NZ network supports 900/2100mhz UMTS

John




I hate to get all technical here, but the word "constaint" can be defined as: "a limitation on what is possible"

Technically, this is a network constraint.... that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the network though,

One could say that a constant of the Vodafone NZ network is that it doesn't support 850mhz 3g, for whatever reason.

You could equally say that another constraint of the Vodaofne NZ network is that there is no coverage in some areas of the Southern Alps. 

In either instances, it doesn't mean that there is a fault or anything wrong with the Vodafone network, it's simply examples of it's constants, or "limitations" for a better word.

So in theory, geektastic is correct.

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  Reply # 302162 25-Feb-2010 16:15
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Hopefully the next iphone will include 900mhz 3g support

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Reply # 302164 25-Feb-2010 16:18
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Geektastic - the only way to achieve what you are suggesting is either for Vodafone to roll out 850MHz 3G or, alternatively, refuse to sell the iPhone.

If you are suggesting that they roll out 850MHz 3G then where do you suggest they are supposed to get the spectrum from?

If you are suggesting that they should refuse to sell the iPhone then how do you justify that to people like me who want to own an iPhone and are willing to accept the support of 3G only on 2100MHz?

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