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63 posts

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  Reply # 366536 11-Aug-2010 22:46
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the fact is that the best plan if you're going overseas is to get your hands on a "local" PAYG sim and use that ...

e.g. she could've picked up a VF UK sim, and in Germany etc only paid approx $2.19 per Mb ... sure, still not the cheapest, but way cheaper than what she did pay ...

i think there's been more than enough headlines warning people about these charges ... at the same time, i do think VF are partly responsible for letting bills get so big before they put a stop on it ...


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  Reply # 366543 11-Aug-2010 22:53
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miguelwrang: What I don't understand is why doesn't vodafone use their multinational networks to make roaming cheaper and advertise that as a advantage over XT or 2 degrees. Surely they would have an easier time making this work than XT.

Or are they making a lot more money by charging exorbitant roaming rates?

Im unsure, but i think they are run somewhat seperately despite having the same overall name?

And anyway, theres no reason to drop their roaming rates if the other NZ providers arent or haven't, just not enough competition in the market.

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  Reply # 366547 11-Aug-2010 22:57
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It's not just NZ providers. Overseas providers also bill for the roaming over their network, and all these charges get passed back to the end user.

@Corksta - denial of responsibility has been used extensively and has (and continues) to work exceptionally well in the justice system. A natural consequence of this is the denial system flowing through to mainstream society.

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  Reply # 366549 11-Aug-2010 22:59
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antant: the fact is that the best plan if you're going overseas is to get your hands on a "local" PAYG sim and use that ...

e.g. she could've picked up a VF UK sim, and in Germany etc only paid approx $2.19 per Mb ... sure, still not the cheapest, but way cheaper than what she did pay ...

i think there's been more than enough headlines warning people about these charges ... at the same time, i do think VF are partly responsible for letting bills get so big before they put a stop on it ...



I do remember reading somewhere that roaming charges from overseas telco do not immediately pass on to user's local telco, so there is no quick way to put a stop on the charges.

Maybe JohnR or Paul B can clarify.

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  Reply # 366554 11-Aug-2010 23:04
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jpollock: This keeps coming up and will continue to come up until such time as Vodadone, TNZ, 2Degrees (essentially everyone) by default put account limits on charges, including both hard and soft limits.

Your phone should not be an unlimited line of credit, and you definitely shouldn't be able to run up a bill bigger than your rent without some sort of contact.


+1 to all of above.
I think it would be hard to say did not know she would be incurring charges, she must have been aware that roaming costs lots.

However, I think cellular providers need a policy (mandatory) of notifiying you (with a phone call!) that your bill/usage this month is VASTLY different to normal.
If next month my bill is 10x my normal monthly spend, I would appreciate a call!

Surely this $6000 bill (or any other bill shock) story would not have happened, if the provider had a system whereby out of character spending is picked up early.

I appreciate this is not in the spirit of Big Business, but to many consumers with new devices, this would be a welcome feature. It is hard to estimate (even for tech savvy person) just how much data apps like Maps, Youtube, web browsing is using, these are all becoming much more widely used on mobile devices.

Cheers,
Joseph

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  Reply # 366560 11-Aug-2010 23:27
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eugeneykc: "3G, V Live! & Mobile data is available on Vodafone.2 enjoy these services remain on this network.Charges of NZ$10/MB apply & will b billed 2 yr NZ account" Which part of the message did she not understand?????? 


imagine the average person with average tech sav iq who knows how to txt heaps:

3G V Live & mobile data: yeah ... ok
remain on this network: ok dont touch anything and she'll be right
$10/mb: sweet
billed to yr NZ account: ok will worry about it later ...




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  Reply # 366574 12-Aug-2010 00:06
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The bit I found most interesting is that of the $6000 bill, only $5000 was roaming data charges. The rest was presumably texts and calling. I'd be pretty shocked at a bill for $1000 even, but sounds like she only minds the data charges.

The CSR explained the charges for calls/texts but she still racked up $1000? That's crazy. I know when I go overseas I research first. Usually I pick up a local SIM. It's not as convenient since people won't know my number but considerably cheaper than $1000!

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  Reply # 366588 12-Aug-2010 01:44
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on that note i got an optus sim when i got to Oz. selecting cheap international gave me 15c sms to NZ and 4c/min calling to NZ landline, ?8c/min to NZ mobile. really struggled to clock up the $20 free credit on the sim after 2 weeks ... really!




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 366593 12-Aug-2010 06:48
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The EU have already tackled this issue http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/activities/roaming/regulation/index_en.htm

Customers roaming in another EU Member State no longer need to worry about accidentally running up huge bills when surfing the web using mobile networks via a mobile phone or computer when abroad in the EU. Thanks to the EU's roaming rules, travellers' data-roaming limit will be automatically set at ?50 (unless they have chosen another limit ? higher or lower.

As of 1 July 2010, the Roaming Regulation foresees the following:

? Operators will have to impose a monthly default cut-off for data roaming of ?50. Consumers can also select a different cut-off limit if offered by the operator or opt out of this bill shock safeguard entirely.

? Operators are obliged to send users a warning whey they reach 80% of their data-roaming bill limit. The operator will have to cut off the mobile internet connection once the limit has been reached, unless the customer has indicated they want to continue data roaming.

? Prices for mobile roaming calls will be reduced further with a maximum tariff of ?0.39 per minute for calls made and ?0.15 per minute for calls received.

? The maximum wholesale prices for data roaming fall from ?1 to ?0.80 per MB.

? Receiving a voice mail message while roaming will become free of charge.

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  Reply # 366607 12-Aug-2010 08:14
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jofizz:
I think it would be hard to say did not know she would be incurring charges, she must have been aware that roaming costs lots.


I think that *GEEKS* know how much this all costs, but you grab someone off the street, or your mother/girlfriend and ask them if $10/MB is a good price, I suspect they wouldn't have a clue. Sounds good. $10 is a smallish number. I'll take two and some TXT please.

Now tell them they get 3072MB every month on their under $100 VF plan with calling and texting.

Let them then work out with their current usage they could be up for the deposit of a reasonably sized house if they used the same amount of data overseas that they do in NZ (which VF throw in for free.)

I believe the problem is the disconnect between the $10 figure and actual comparative usage.

I understand why VF do it as well, because for every muppett on campbell live there is 1000 business travellers which just end up paying it, or half of it if they complain.

I'd love to get those sorts of mark up rates.

1. Take a product which you throw in for free in your home country, get your sister company overseas to charge 30k for it.
2. ???
3. Profit




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

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  Reply # 366625 12-Aug-2010 08:54
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What did she think? That it was going to be free?

But on a side-note: When I worked at Telecom there WERE instances when people would be overseas and racking up data and they WERE cut off. This was only at about $500.

It is possible that these were fairly new connections so they would have had a cap regardless of whether they were overseas or not. I didn't see they show, but does the same thing happen with Vodafone? 

But back to my original point: There NEEDS to be some accountability on the customer side. You can't honestly expect me to believe that she thought she could use her phone like she did here (however ignorant of technology she is). She KNEW calling and texting were going to be higher. She CANNOT have thought that data wasn't going to be. 

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 366626 12-Aug-2010 08:55
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joker97: on that note i got an optus sim when i got to Oz. selecting cheap international gave me 15c sms to NZ and 4c/min calling to NZ landline, ?8c/min to NZ mobile. really struggled to clock up the $20 free credit on the sim after 2 weeks ... really!


Hmmm...... I wonder if I can roam within NZ with that plan cheaper than a NZ providers plan .... ;-) 

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 366633 12-Aug-2010 09:19
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Not to defend Vodafone or anything but with roaming it is more difficult to handle credit limits.

The person is on another providers network and a lot of the time, the roaming usage charges don't arrive from the remote carrier until a few days after the usage has been made (and it usually comes in batches).  

By that time VFNZ would be obligated to pay the remote carrier.  They could then block the customers account, but if they racked up large charges over a short amount of time, they could still be in for some sort of bill shock.


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  Reply # 366642 12-Aug-2010 09:33
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I watched that and thought much the same thing as the OP. 

Yet another example of a person using something they clearly are not competent to use and the consequences are always someone else's fault. 

In my experience, if you'd tried to explain data use and other things they clearly NEED TO KNOW....they'd brush you off with "I don't understand computers.".....and they really mean they can't be bothered thinking. 

I've seen it a thousand times:  Hedgehogs on the highway of life who wear their determined ignorance like shields.  If they don't know, how can they possibly be responsible? My own daughters have been taught this in school. Best way to avoid getting into trouble is to know nothing. 

Pay the bill and stop whining. 

As for Vodafone cutting people off after a certain amount, apparently, they did after it hit $5000. I'm also fairly certain their would be a lag between actual usage and Vodafone becoming aware of it. in 2007, after a few months in Canada on a contract, it took me 4 months to get my Bell Canada account closed down (and my C$500 deposit back) due to possible lagging roaming charges. 

Other telcos have no incentive to reduce their roaming charges. You aren't their customer. What do they care? Vodafone is powerless to do anything about that.....except perhaps within their own group of companies.....but why rock the boat? It's money for jam. 

There are tiers of awareness in life. 

The hedgehogs on the road. 
The people driving the cars down the road.
The people who required / caused the driver to be on the road.  
The people who build roads and the cars and know why.  

She's a hedgehog. Most people are. 









____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 366648 12-Aug-2010 09:43
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I agree with most points here about the lack of personal knowledge on the young ladies part. If your going to have such devices you need to confirm (more than once) what it could cost to run it.

Getting off the topic a little ....

Its very generous (and interesting) that VF can provide a 50% discount/credit to help her out. I cant see a random ISP (VF maybe) allowing someone to go 200gb over their data limit and then cutting the bill in half.

I do think that VF (as a world wide group) have the ability to gain huge volumes of business by using their "global" network to provide data roaming for a "fixed plan" price. Any of the counties they are in have local data plans which are well below the casual rate.

VF are happy with the roaming data arrangement as they get to recover/make at least 100% on the usage (based on the fact VF can provide a 50% credit in this case).

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