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Nate wants an iphone
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Topic # 6679 14-Feb-2006 23:56
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Thought this would be an interesting article to discuss here. Hopefully it won't turn into flamewars.

The article is here on geekzone.

So, what are your opinions about it? Do you agree with the settlements voiced in the article by Vodafone?





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Reply # 28467 15-Feb-2006 00:41
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It is my understanding that Telecom and Vodafone will be affected equally by this. So how can Telecom be benefiting?



Nate wants an iphone
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Reply # 28468 15-Feb-2006 02:29
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Thats what I initially thought as well. The only situation I can think of is if the majority of calls come from Telecoms cellphone networks.





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Reply # 28474 15-Feb-2006 08:28
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I did have to read the media release about eight times trying to figure out why Telecom would benefit so much...




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Reply # 28487 15-Feb-2006 09:05
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brad05: It is my understanding that Telecom and Vodafone will be affected equally by this. So how can Telecom be benefiting?


Telecom are still the biggest PSTN & tollcall provider in NZ.

At the moment it's possible to make calls from a landline to a mobile for as cheap as 30c per minute if you shop around. Telecom's standard rates are 71c per minute if you are not on a plan, 49c offpeak/99c peak if you choose the standard mobile offpeak plan, and down to 39c per minute for calls to an 025/027 phone if you're on anytime. Most business customers on Telecom seem to pay around 30-40c per minute for calls.

The whole Com Com issue with termination rates is that it believes the cost of PSTN to mobile calls is to high and they want to bring the cost of calls down. They believe the way to do this is to cut the intereconnection rate. Vodafone's gripe is that if Telecom can afford to offer mobile calls somewhere between the 30-40c range at present to selected customers then they should be offering them to all customers. If Telecom can charge 1 customer 30c per minute for a call to a mobile and another customer 99c per minute for that same call then are we really going to see Telecom halve those prices when the termination cost drops to say 18c per minute from the current 25c? (somebody correct me on the current price If I've got it wrong). Every toll call provider in NZ at the moment could be charging 49c per minute max for calls to a mobile phone and still making a tidy profit but they choose not so, simple because they have no need to undercut Telecom. Vodafone are going to loose several a substancial amount in interconnection fees from any reduction and there is no obligation for Telecom (or TCL or any other toll provider) to actually drop their rates. Telecom stand to gain from the deal because if they don't drop their PSTN to mobile rates they simple get to keep the reduction as profit. If you then understand microenonomics you could probably also assume that any reduction in call costs could result in an increase in the number of calls made per month which even at a slightly reduced margin could result in a greater aggregate revenue.


If Vodafone lose revenue from interconnection all they're going to do if try and make it up elsewhere, we all know what a greedy cash cow they are..

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Reply # 28488 15-Feb-2006 09:09
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brad05: It is my understanding that Telecom and Vodafone will be affected equally by this. So how can Telecom be benefiting?


“Telecom is the major beneficiary of this regulation. We are very concerned that we are being forced to cut our mobile termination prices which ultimately make more money for our biggest competitor, creating an uneven playing field in the mobile market.”


Customers are more likely to make more calls to mobiles from their landlines, if the rates come down. Due to Telecom owning the majority of landlines in this country, they are going to benefit more from the increased number of calls, even though they termination rate will be lower. Obviously Vodafone have no landline service, therefore they are more liely to be penalised by this.

That's my interpretation of the statement by the Vodafone Finance director anyway.

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Reply # 28490 15-Feb-2006 09:14
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sbiddle:we all know what a greedy cash cow they are..


Yes & Telecom is so different. Note: Sarcastic tone.

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Reply # 28491 15-Feb-2006 09:36
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Grantis:
sbiddle:we all know what a greedy cash cow they are..


Yes & Telecom is so different. Note: Sarcastic tone.


I for once actually feel sorry for Vodafone. I believe the MTR should be reduced however unless the com com are going to be like Oftel (now Ofcom) in the UK who forced reductions in the MTR and then dictated what prices BT could charge for calls then Telecom are going to be the only ones who gain from this.

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Reply # 28493 15-Feb-2006 09:42
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That is often the problem with regulation - it is difficult to keep all parties happy. But look on the bright side our standing in the OECD will be improved.

Got to move up that OECD

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Reply # 28653 16-Feb-2006 21:56
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The government is stupid!

If they are going to force Vodafone to lower their termination charge then surely to be fair, they have to force Telecom and other toll providers, to cut the price by the same margin?

Why wouldn't they? I mean isn't the point in doing this to give consumers cheaper calls to mobiles? All that will happen is Vodafone will make less money per call and Telecom will make more............... it's crazy!!!!!!! wake up you stupid bunch of dumb politians!! let me run the country.... id sort telecom out quick smart and build a third mobile network owned by the government!! while im at it id degregulate the broadband network too.... all this would be done by lunchtime hahaah




Nate wants an iphone
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Reply # 28656 16-Feb-2006 22:41
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I think you'll find that they'll focus on both carriers rates equally.
However there is more to it than just the rates.

Several users have already posted how it could benefit Telecom.




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BDFL - Memuneh
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Reply # 28657 16-Feb-2006 22:48
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simon_nz90: The government is stupid!
Could you please revert your e-mail address to something valid?





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Reply # 28658 16-Feb-2006 23:07
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freitasm:
simon_nz90: The government is stupid!
Could you please revert your e-mail address to something valid?



My email in my sig is valid.

simon14@gmail.com

I was told to write it as its published in my sig because of the risk of receiving spam.



Another thing, im very disapointed at the admin locking my other thread on the Vodafone LET YOURSELF GO promo; what ever happened to freedom of speech? I wasn't directly insulting any one particular person, i think whoever asked admin to lock it is just the sort of person who gets offended easily and in such case, should maybe not browse forums on the internet. - I would understand if i directly insulted someone, but that was not the case and i think the outcome was unjust, thats all..... (sorry to go off topic, but i had no choice really)

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Reply # 28660 16-Feb-2006 23:18
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simon_nz90:
freitasm:
simon_nz90: The government is stupid!
Could you please revert your e-mail address to something valid?



My email in my sig is valid.


The email in your profile is not... If anyone sends you a PM or a reply in the forums the email notification will not arrive.

simon_nz90: Another thing, im very disapointed at the admin locking my other thread on the Vodafone LET YOURSELF GO promo; what ever happened to freedom of speech? I wasn't directly insulting any one particular person, i think whoever asked admin to lock it is just the sort of person who gets offended easily and in such case, should maybe not browse forums on the internet. - I would understand if i directly insulted someone, but that was not the case and i think the outcome was unjust, thats all..... (sorry to go off topic, but i had no choice really)


Freedom of speech is a political right, and it is granted to anyone and everyone, providing the speech does not cause offense, or harm. Remember: your rights end where someone else's rights begin.

Specifically related to the other thread, other people have the right to choose whatever operator they want, without anyone offending them or calling them names because of their choice.

Also, freedom of speech is a political right, and it's not something I'd expect to be invoked in a privately owned forum, as this one. People very often confuse the situations.

I grant people right to post here providing everyone's opinions are respected, and our forum usage guidelines are followed. This is not a natural right, and I am sad this post is turning into a political discussion, instead of a technical one.

I wasn't the person who locked the thread, but I agree and support the moderators I selected for this forum.

Here is the message: if you want to discuss the technical issues or why an operator does something in one way or another, that's fine. Calling names because of personal choices is not. Throwing a "Operator A is bad because I don't like it" without any basis is not. Complaining about moderation is not.

Freedom of Speech: "The right to freedom of expression is not considered unlimited; governments may still prohibit certain damaging types of expressions. Under international law, restrictions on free speech are required to comport with a strict three part test: they must be provided by law, pursue an aim recognized as legitimate, and be necessary (i.e., proportionate) for the accomplishment of that aim. Amongst the aims considered legitimate are protection of the rights and reputations of others (prevention of defamation), and the protection of national security and public order, health and morals. Opinions vary widely among people and among different nations and cultures as to when the restriction of free speech meets these criteria."






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Reply # 28661 16-Feb-2006 23:20
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simon_nz90: My email in my sig is valid.

simon14@gmail.com

I was told to write it as its published in my sig because of the risk of receiving spam.

If you have your email address wrong in your actual profile, it probably generates bounced emails for newsletters, or if admin need to contact you.


Another thing, im very disapointed at the admin locking my other thread on the Vodafone LET YOURSELF GO promo; what ever happened to freedom of speech?

There is no 'freedom of speech' here, its not a publicly owned forum, its whatever rules the admin (freitasm) wishes to impose. Go start a blog somewhere on your own server if you want freedom of speech.


I wasn't directly insulting any one particular person,

No, you directly insulted everyone who uses Telecom mobiles. Some people have to for work, some for coverage, some get better pricing than on Voda, and some just plain prefer it. (and of course, some dont.)


i think whoever asked admin to lock it is just the sort of person who gets offended easily and in such case, should maybe not browse forums on the internet. - I would understand if i directly insulted someone, but that was not the case and i think the outcome was unjust, thats all..... (sorry to go off topic, but i had no choice really)

The user who asked me has been a valuable contributor to this site, who has never been one-sided about a network (I would have to go and read old threads to recall which camp he is in). He asked me to lock it, not because he was offended, but because he wished to spare this community yet another thread that ended in an offtopic slanging match. I applaud that users sense of community responsibility.

Play by the rules, stick around, and contribute valuable posts.... thats all we ask of anyone.

In future, please start a new thread in the offtopic forum for anything that is, well, offtopic.

Please note that when threads get out of hand here, they are not deleted, but merely locked. No one is being censored (unless they post something -really- hateful, unlawful, dangerous etc).




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