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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 524000 21-Sep-2011 12:19
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NonprayingMantis: You only need to look at the truenet thread “do people want faster speeds” to see that most people (even on this forum where internet super-users are overrepresented) don’t have the desire to pay anything extra for the much higher speeds.


Of course. Those (super-users) are mostly (from what I've seen) people who use an extraordinary amount of data to download (and hoard) content they couldn't possibly have the time to watch/listen. The majority of those seem to think "All You Can Eat"-type plans should cost $19.95 and the content should be free.

Now, go and ask serious users ;)



 




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  Reply # 524007 21-Sep-2011 12:25
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DonGould: 

This is the reason why we really need a much greater number of small players and less big ones with more market choice. 



How is more smaller ISP's going to help?

We already have lots of retail ISP's, too many for our market size, remember that economy of scale is a big factor for buying hardware, bandwidth.

This is one of the primary reasons why Australian ISP's are able to offer better deals than Kiwi ISP's right now.  The largest NZ ISP Telecom with ~600,000+ DSL connections is a small ISP when compared to Australian ISP's, they have much better economy of scale, purchasing power etc..

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  Reply # 524018 21-Sep-2011 12:37
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Ragnor:  How is more smaller ISP's going to help?


Simon Hackett's, Internode, with ~250,000 customers demonstrates the answer to a tee.

250k is more than enough customers to get good enough pricing and economy to deliver a healthy profit, innovation (they're currently the regions IPv6 leader and at the forefront of NBN development) and quality.

So based on your numbers, we need 6 to 8 providers where we currently have 2.









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  Reply # 524027 21-Sep-2011 12:48
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Telecom have 50-60% of the NZ residential Internet market, Telstraclear about 30%.. I think you would probably have to combine Snap, Vodafone, Orcon together for 200k.  Not 100% sure on these numbers as there seems to be no public data for this?

So is it consumers own fault currently that Telecom and Telstraclear have such big market share.

Or that the smaller ISP's just simply haven't provided reliable service.

In the last 4-6 years I tried: Xnet, Vodafone, Orcon, Telstraclear and Telecom.  There was a night an day performance and number of issues difference and I'm on back on Telecom now.

Thinking about giving Snap a shot.

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  Reply # 524035 21-Sep-2011 13:03
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Ragnor: Or that the smaller ISP's just simply haven't provided reliable service.


Currently the big ones aren't proving reliable either.  I suspect it's in part because they're now cutting corners in an attempt to compete with the small providers to stop them taking market share.

This brings me back to the need for more market regulation over things like billing being correct.






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  Reply # 524046 21-Sep-2011 13:32
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So you want to regulate because ISP software for traffic accounting occasionally has bugs which affects some users when the majority of the time there aren't any problems, even when problems have been found ISP's have credited users?

This is kind of insane because you're optimizing for the non normal case and all software is imperfect, has bugs, it's written by humans after all!

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  Reply # 524053 21-Sep-2011 13:43
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Ragnor: So you want to regulate because ISP software for traffic accounting occasionally has bugs which affects some users when the majority of the time there aren't any problems, even when problems have been found ISP's have credited users?


No.  I want to regulate it because these big providers make promises to users, then fob them off and won't address the faults, but are happy to collect the payments from their users - such as was the case with Telecom.

It would have been nice to see these providers take customers seriously, but they don't.  So we have market failure.

These are the sorts of problems our parents used to have with appliance retailers over simple stuff like washing machine repairs.  Our parents introduced laws like CGA and FTA which apply to goods, but don't currently seem to translate to ISP services.

So we need to get busy and develop effective legislation to regulate the delivery of quality service in the ISP sector so ISPs can't just fob customers off with form letters and overseas based call centers that don't speak English well enough to understand software faults.

While you are right that some customers are getting small credits, it does appear the majority would just give up and not even bother to question the faults because most sane people understand just how good these providers are at erecting stone walls.









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  Reply # 524055 21-Sep-2011 13:46
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Further, the problem with providers making clever claims is that it closes up the market to innovators who simply can't compete.

If these big providers are going to be allowed to continue to exist then they need to be held to account by strong regulation and not washie statements about how software is written by humans, with all due respect.

If they don't want regulation then they need to ensure that they deliver. A failing that Telecom clearly took a long time to accept and it's caused a massive impact on their share price, profits and customer loyalty.







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  Reply # 524083 21-Sep-2011 14:22
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I'd like to be able to outsource my image processing. In a busy month that would mean uploading 120-200GB of data to the US. If I was in Australia that wouldn't be a problem, but in NZ it's not really practical without paying $330 to TelstraClear. That's probably still worth my while, if I do it, given the processing costs would be in excess of $1000, and I wouldn't need to pay that much for data every month. I'd probably download another 10-20GB of data, processed images.

The 2Mbps upload limit means each 25GB data set would take 28 hours to upload, if I hit 2Mbps. I think I did the maths right on that.

My point is there's legitimate uses for using huge amounts of data. Then think about digital video, which probably uses 100X more data, maybe more even.




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  Reply # 559215 18-Dec-2011 14:09

I have just upgraded my plan to warpspeed 120gb, with the 25mbps download speed....It's been a while since I posted the original question about when TelstraClear were going to upgrade to 100mbps and was wondering if anyone had any news as to when it might yet happen?

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  Reply # 559251 18-Dec-2011 16:01
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skl17: I have just upgraded my plan to warpspeed 120gb, with the 25mbps download speed....It's been a while since I posted the original question about when TelstraClear were going to upgrade to 100mbps and was wondering if anyone had any news as to when it might yet happen?


I've heard some talk recently of new Cisco DOCSIS3 modems being released that are hopefully a lot better than the old ones, and work starting on the project again.




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  Reply # 580319 11-Feb-2012 22:53

So Telstraclear mentioned in a post responding to this question in Sept last year that they were likely to offer the plan before the end of the year (2011)....here we are in Feb 2012 and still no launch...I was originally told by the TCL shop in Wellington over 15 months ago that they were likely to be launching the 100mbps download within a couple of months, so come on TelstraClear- PLEASE PLEASE start to offer the 100mbps service, or at least be honest with when you ARE going to launch it.....

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  Reply # 580325 11-Feb-2012 23:36
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Don't hold your breath.

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  Reply # 580363 12-Feb-2012 08:44
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skl17: So Telstraclear mentioned in a post responding to this question in Sept last year that they were likely to offer the plan before the end of the year (2011)....here we are in Feb 2012 and still no launch...I was originally told by the TCL shop in Wellington over 15 months ago that they were likely to be launching the 100mbps download within a couple of months, so come on TelstraClear- PLEASE PLEASE start to offer the 100mbps service, or at least be honest with when you ARE going to launch it.....


What DOSCIS3 modems should they use if they launch right now? End of line obsolete hardware that is no longer supported by Cisco, or new Cisco hardware that still has bugs to iron out? Which would you prefer?


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  Reply # 580365 12-Feb-2012 08:45
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As Steve says, from what I've heard they have a hard time getting hardware for this. Cisco is not playing well...




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