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freitasm
BDFL - Memuneh
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  #530486 7-Oct-2011 10:08
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It's not misleading and meaningless. It's not 100% accurate but it's a good indicative.




 

 

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DonGould

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  #530494 7-Oct-2011 10:21
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futility:
freitasm: Yes, I know those things work. We use the same kind of "IP-based geolocation" here on Geekzone. I know how reliable or not it can be.


So you're knowingly posting misleading and meaningless information in this thread and on your blog?


Yes I think that is a reasonable call.

The information being put into the core systems by ISPs around the globe is inaccurate, which has the flow on effect of making the visual tools misleading and meaningless.

The net result is that when a fault does appear we have just about no way to figure out what is going on.

In .us they've even removed most of the whois data from the database and put it on a web site which has crippled some tools I suspect.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


 
 
 
 


captk
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  #530575 7-Oct-2011 14:15
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Hi all,

Looks as though we're getting some action or someones fiddling! As tracert dropped to 15 hops and ping time to google.co.nz = 263ms (down from 450ms)


Tracing route to google.co.nz [74.125.237.84]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2   139 ms    36 ms    15 ms  lo0.internet.ivpn.pe14.telstraclear.net [218.101.61.97]
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4    20 ms    51 ms    20 ms  ie1-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.1]
  5    19 ms    20 ms    19 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
  6    20 ms    19 ms    19 ms  203.167.233.10
  7    44 ms    44 ms    43 ms  i-0-0-4-0.sydo-core02.bx.reach.com [202.84.142.153]
  8    44 ms    44 ms    44 ms  i-0-3-2-0.sydo-core06.bi.reach.com [202.84.220.190]
  9   163 ms   162 ms   162 ms  i-4-0-0.siko-core02.bx.reach.com [202.84.140.138]
 10   162 ms   162 ms   163 ms  i-2-0-0.siko02.bi.reach.com [202.84.219.46]
 11   164 ms   163 ms   163 ms  72.14.216.81
 12   163 ms   238 ms   163 ms  209.85.241.94
 13   168 ms   168 ms   168 ms  64.233.175.0
 14   272 ms   263 ms   268 ms  66.249.95.167
 15   264 ms   264 ms   264 ms  72.14.237.55
 16   275 ms   264 ms   265 ms  74.125.237.84

Trace complete.

DonGould

3892 posts

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  #530578 7-Oct-2011 14:19
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captk: Hi all,

Looks as though we're getting some action or someones fiddling! As tracert dropped to 15 hops and ping time to google.co.nz = 263ms (down from 450ms)

race complete.


Hostname                                                                                                                                          %Loss  Rcv  Snt  Last Best  Avg  Worst
 1. 192.168.2.1                                                                                                                                      0%   13   13     0    0    1      2
 2. 192.168.5.1                                                                                                                                      0%   13   13     1    1    1      2
 3. ???
 4. 218.101.61.101                                                                                                                                   0%   13   13    25   10   20     48
 5. ???
 6. ie1-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net                                                                                                                     0%   13   13    24   22   30     65
 7. ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net                                                                                                          0%   13   13    29   23   27     45
 8. 203.167.233.10                                                                                                                                   0%   13   13    23   23   25     28
 9. i-0-6-4-1.tlot-core01.bx.reach.com                                                                                                               0%   13   13   156  154  161    196
10. i-2-5.tlot03.bi.reach.com                                                                                                                        0%   13   13   150  148  151    158
11. 72.14.197.53                                                                                                                                     0%   13   13   157  154  156    158
12. 72.14.234.45                                                                                                                                     0%   13   13   150  147  156    215
13. 64.233.174.192                                                                                                                                   0%   13   13   157  154  160    177
14. 64.233.174.177                                                                                                                                   0%   13   13   211  207  211    226
15. 209.85.255.35                                                                                                                                    0%   13   13   207  207  212    231
16. 64.233.175.0                                                                                                                                     0%   12   13   212  212  220    244
17. 66.249.95.167                                                                                                                                    0%   12   13   307  306  317    350
18. 72.14.237.47                                                                                                                                     0%   12   13   308  307  310    318
19. 74.125.237.18                                                                                                                                    0%   12   12   309  307  309    312


Ya sort of...  300ms... and a bunch less hops.









Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


dets00b
60 posts

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  #532020 11-Oct-2011 17:10
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browsing feeling a lot snappier today, did a traceroute, feels better..

Tracing route to www.l.google.com [173.194.33.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2   300 ms    71 ms    11 ms  lo0.internet.ivpn.pe24.telstraclear.net [218.101
.61.122]
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  ie1-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.1]
  5    10 ms    11 ms    10 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.
50.251]
  6    10 ms    11 ms    11 ms  203.167.233.10
  7   136 ms   136 ms   136 ms  i-0-0-4-1.tlot-core01.bx.reach.com [202.84.142.1
06]
  8   141 ms   141 ms   141 ms  i-1-2.tlot03.bi.reach.com [202.84.251.238]
  9   142 ms   141 ms   167 ms  72.14.197.53
 10   136 ms   135 ms   142 ms  72.14.234.47
 11   140 ms   144 ms   144 ms  64.233.174.190
 12   152 ms   151 ms   151 ms  64.233.174.205
 13   163 ms   163 ms   163 ms  216.239.47.186
 14   165 ms   178 ms   164 ms  72.14.239.13
 15   165 ms   165 ms   165 ms  66.249.94.194
 16   170 ms   170 ms   171 ms  209.85.253.24
 17   169 ms   168 ms   169 ms  173.194.33.20

muppet
2291 posts

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  #532043 11-Oct-2011 18:19
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Don't forget you've got TCL's transparent Intl Proxy Cache in the way. So most of your traceroutes here could be (probably aren't, but could be) useless. i.e. the proxy might be taking a different path to your end PC.

Also Google use anycast. So the address you're tracing to could well be different that someone else (on a different ISP) tracing to that same IP address. If you're all the same provider though that's very unlikely to be the case. [Disclaimer: I know they use Anycast for their public DNS, I'm not sure if they also use it for the websites but I see no reason they wouldn't - Does anyone with clue know?]

It's very easy to point the finger at TelstraClear, but the path traffic takes can be influenced both by the ISP and the remote site itself. I can stop advertising my routes on one of my routers and make all my traffic come in via the other (which uses different upstream networks).
To people in the US that would make a traffic path look very different and the ISP in the USA did nothing. It could make the path faster, slower, route via Asia etc. All their customers might complain. It'd take them some time to figure out what'd happened and even more to contact the right people to fix.

Routing is a bit more complex than getting a Visual Traceroute (btw: People in Network Operation Centers usually laugh when we get those attached to a fault), then pressing a button saying "Traffic go otherway please thanks"

(Yes, I'm aware I sound like a smug git)




I hate you.


mercutio
1387 posts

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  #532048 11-Oct-2011 18:27
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muppet: Don't forget you've got TCL's transparent Intl Proxy Cache in the way. So most of your traceroutes here could be (probably aren't, but could be) useless. i.e. the proxy might be taking a different path to your end PC.

Also Google use anycast. So the address you're tracing to could well be different that someone else (on a different ISP) tracing to that same IP address. If you're all the same provider though that's very unlikely to be the case. [Disclaimer: I know they use Anycast for their public DNS, I'm not sure if they also use it for the websites but I see no reason they wouldn't - Does anyone with clue know?]

It's very easy to point the finger at TelstraClear, but the path traffic takes can be influenced both by the ISP and the remote site itself. I can stop advertising my routes on one of my routers and make all my traffic come in via the other (which uses different upstream networks).
To people in the US that would make a traffic path look very different and the ISP in the USA did nothing. It could make the path faster, slower, route via Asia etc. All their customers might complain. It'd take them some time to figure out what'd happened and even more to contact the right people to fix.

Routing is a bit more complex than getting a Visual Traceroute (btw: People in Network Operation Centers usually laugh when we get those attached to a fault), then pressing a button saying "Traffic go otherway please thanks"

(Yes, I'm aware I sound like a smug git)


google give out different ip addresses for different areas it appears.  dunno if there's anycast as well.

because of the transparent proxies thing behaviour can be different with https than with http if you use alternative dns.  chrome likes to use https these days.

 
 
 
 


muppet
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  #532049 11-Oct-2011 18:29
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mercutio:
google give out different ip addresses for different areas it appears.  dunno if there's anycast as well.

because of the transparent proxies thing behaviour can be different with https than with http if you use alternative dns.  chrome likes to use https these days.


I'm sure the other day doing some testing I found the same address being advertised from Sydney and from somewhere in the states.  This was for www.l.google.com

If I was at work I'd jump in the routers and start looking at BGP advertisements, but I'm not.

mercutio
1387 posts

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  #532050 11-Oct-2011 18:32
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muppet:
mercutio:
google give out different ip addresses for different areas it appears.  dunno if there's anycast as well.

because of the transparent proxies thing behaviour can be different with https than with http if you use alternative dns.  chrome likes to use https these days.


I'm sure the other day doing some testing I found the same address being advertised from Sydney and from somewhere in the states.  This was for www.l.google.com

If I was at work I'd jump in the routers and start looking at BGP advertisements, but I'm not.


% host www.google.co.nz
www.google.co.nz is an alias for www.google.com.
www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.49
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.48
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.51
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.52
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.50
 

if i try routing to that over telstraclear routing is terrible.

actually - i just tried it, and it's changed.   it now seems to be routing via singapore.. ? 

my old results were more like dongould's if incoming and outgoing via telstraclear .. and about 200 msec i think if just outgoing via telstraclear..

btw this is how i figure singapore:

4 i-0-0-4-0.sydo-core02.bx.reach.com (202.84.142.153) 25.809 ms 24.886 ms 25.63 ms
5 i-0-3-2-0.sydo-core06.bi.reach.com (202.84.220.190) 25.43 ms 24.893 ms 24.864 ms
6 i-4-0-0.siko-core02.bx.reach.com (202.84.140.138) 143.701 ms 143.727 ms 143.795 ms
7 i-2-0-0.siko02.bi.reach.com (202.84.219.46) 143.773 ms 143.817 ms 143.770 ms
8 72.14.216.81 (72.14.216.81) 144.311 ms 144.307 ms 144.524 ms

DonGould

3892 posts

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  #532071 11-Oct-2011 19:48
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muppet: It's very easy to point the finger at TelstraClear

(Yes, I'm aware I sound like a smug git)


Telstra are my representative in dealing with the big providers such as Google around the world.  They are responsible for ensuring their peering and interchange is up to par with one of the most used web sites in the world.

If as network operators, they don't choose to sort these issues out then I'm sure we can direct users directly at the array of global lists that Operators use to sort this sort of very basic crap out.

...and No Muppet, frankly you don't sound smug to me at all... you actually sound as frustrated about this sort of very basic crap as the rest of us.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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