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  Reply # 553494 4-Dec-2011 14:30
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DoomlordVekk: Mr Biddle, does the DSL DSLAM not have a common upstream link into the provider network?  That does kind of say that all users on a given DSLAM have a finite shared upstream capacity, does it not?  Being a distance dependant medium does it also mean that those closer to the hog trough get their fill more often?


Read the reply I've just posted above this.

Distance also has nothing to do with it. Users further away will have slower sync speeds, but distance won't affect the ability to "hog" data.


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  Reply # 553500 4-Dec-2011 14:40
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floydbloke:
sbiddle: I can guarantee to you now that backhaul will not the issue. The way DOCSIS works is the issue.

If you want to do some light reading check out how DOCSIS works. It's a shared access medium a across a node (not a auburb as there are around 100 nodes in the Wgtn region), and has a finite capacity, so if you have lots of people on a single node that are heavy users speed will be impacted. This differs from DSL which is not a shared medium.

DOCSIS3 improves on this with channel bonding which also greatly improves the maxium speeds that can be offered.


I always respect your very knowledgeable and educational posts.  This doesn't explain a 90%+ deterioration in my ADSL performance this weekend though.


I don't understand as much as I'd like to about this space at all.

While D3 will improve the chnl bonding issue, people on D2 modems (all of us bar MF) won't be benefiting from that at all will we?

However what sort of uplink ports do the CMTS units have on them?  The D2 ones might have only had 100mbit ports as they would have been matched to media converters and other stuff and issues. 

I would think the new CMTS units would have Gigibit interfaces on them now, but is that really going to make any difference at all?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS - says that there's sill only 1 42mbit channel.

So in Wellington, where the node density is ~2000 users per node, that's 42mbits by 2k, which is only 20kbits CIR thoughput averaged.  So the numbers that people are getting are still quite amazing if you think about it and I can see where Steve is coming from.

But I also rant an MTR session from .us back to Telstra's own web site...

mx.thinkdesignprint.co.nz (0.0.0.0)                                                                                                     Sun Dec  4 01:36:04 2011
Resolver: Received error response 2. (server failure)er of fields   quit
                                                                                                                        Packets               Pings
 Host                                                                                                                 Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
 1. 117.121.243.1                                                                                                      0.0%    49    0.4   0.5   0.3   5.7   0.8
 2. botbd1-gi-4-3.w-link.net                                                                                           0.0%    49    0.4   0.5   0.4   1.9   0.2
 3. renbd1-gi-4-1.w-link.net                                                                                           0.0%    49    1.1   1.2   1.0   2.0   0.2
 4. seabd1-gi-1-1.w-link.net                                                                                           0.0%    49    4.1  15.4   1.5 191.0  44.1
 5. 208.99.192.93                                                                                                      0.0%    49    2.3  21.6   1.6 237.6  57.0
 6. 208.99.192.66                                                                                                      0.0%    49    2.0  13.0   1.5 179.2  37.7
 7. ge-6-10.car3.Seattle1.Level3.net                                                                                   0.0%    49    2.3  14.5   1.7 208.8  39.6
 8. 4.68.105.13                                                                                                        2.0%    49    2.3   3.8   1.8  42.8   6.8
 9. xe-10-0-0.edge2.Seattle.Level3.net                                                                                 0.0%    48    4.5   6.6   3.1  44.5   8.6
10. 0.ge-2-3-0.XT1.SEA7.ALTER.NET                                                                                      0.0%    48    3.6   4.0   3.3  10.9   1.2
11. 0.so-3-0-0.IL1.SAC1.ALTER.NET                                                                                      0.0%    48   23.0  23.1  22.5  26.5   0.6
12. 0.so-2-0-0.IR1.SAC2.ALTER.NET                                                                                      0.0%    48   22.7  30.7  22.3 163.7  29.7
13. 0.so-3-2-0.XT3.AKL1.Alter.Net                                                                                      0.0%    48  166.4 167.1 166.4 170.9   0.8
14. 0.gigabitethernet-2-0-0.GW6.AKL1.ALTER.NET                                                                         0.0%    48  166.9 167.4 166.4 181.3   2.2
15. 210.80.27.6                                                                                                        0.0%    48  259.2 257.1 230.9 302.9  14.4
16. ie1-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net                                                                                       2.1%    48  283.2 255.4 230.3 301.7  14.2
17. front2-clix.clear.net.nz                                                                                           0.0%    48  261.9 254.0 231.0 271.3  11.1
18. idm-er-proxy.clear.net.nz                                                                                          0.0%    48  262.7 254.2 231.5 272.2  11.0

There is packet loss at Level 3 (which I assume suggests congestion) and also at ie1-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net.  So to me this says that node congestion has nothing to do with performance in some areas.

These issues sparked my thinking about hosted customers though.  If your web site is hosted in the Telstra DC right now, is it anounced to the world in the same bandwidth pool as the Telstra website?

The latency from .us back to www.telstraclear.co.nz is high.  Does this mean that business customers with capacity in the Telstra space are also being impacted on or am I just not understanding this stuff correctly?

Can anyone explain what I've over looked?












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  Reply # 553501 4-Dec-2011 14:44
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freitasm:
Have no luck at all with iTunes store though. Tried to find a couple of things to rent for later viewing and the search wouldn't work at all with "connecting to iTunes store" showing in the status bar and not going anywhere.


Interesting.  I was finding that YouTube was working well, but I think who ever commented about cached content was right.  Sid the Science Kid and Deigo are fine, but we switched to Bob the builder and all it did was buffer, so clearly we're some way away from being to open the tap on YouTube on the TV.






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  Reply # 553503 4-Dec-2011 14:46
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mattbush: If I was CEO of TCL I would have pulled the plug on this weekend now, apologized to affected customers and sacked whomever decided to try this marketing ploy out.


I very much doubt the CEO will be standing down over this issue.






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  Reply # 553505 4-Dec-2011 14:50
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sbiddle:It's clear that international transit is?saturated and this will be affecting everybody. Due to the completely different architctures of the networks congestion on DOCSIS and DSL platforms will occur at different points.

You're correct that my explanation doesn't explain your issue - because you're not on DSL. The issue for you won't be a backhaul one either however, it will likely be saturation of the handover link(s) between the Chorus and TCL networks.



That might well be TCL's main takeaway from this exercise. Now give all users say 300GB/month and see if the patterns are the same would be an interesting exercise. I suspect that international bandwidth would be able to cope since all the traffic would not be concentrated into one weekend.

I suggest 300GB as a number that balances TCL's cost versus the bandwidth hungry users who need lots of content each month. I suspect even with streaming video on a regular basis I could live inside that limit.




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  Reply # 553511 4-Dec-2011 15:06
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Teeps:  But you also said that people had painted TC as "callous, outrageous, moronic, illegal gits" and only gave an example of one of those words.

I dont know of the legality, but do you think it is right for a company to effectively take away a service that someone has paid for to provide a service to others? If you went into a coffee shop and paid for a coffee and was just about to drink it and someone else came in and the owner gave your coffee to another customer who only bought a biscotti and left you with only the spillage left on the table to lick up would you think that is fair and legal? I wouldn't!


Fair and legal are very interesting questions here.  My casual observation is that there is little regulation that covers this sort of thing.

My take on Telstra is that it's a business that was build by just buying up a bunch of our small providers and consolidating them into one.

We built those providers with our customer for a range of reasons.  As the providers have consolidated some, many(?) of those reasons for given our patron have gone.  This isn't a new thing in the net space.

The 'new company' needs a number of customers to operate within within it's cost model of investment, so clearly Telstra are looking around to see where they can pull more customers from and wanting to step up with an offering that will pull those customers from where they are.

They also want to retain customers from jumping ship.

My current observation (with little in the way of fact to back it up, just pure speculation) is that the company is simply repositioning it's market space as I'm sure they do actually understand their current customer base every well, most providers do.

The market has a great amount of choice in it.  So while it might not be very 'fair', it would seem to me to be quite legal for Telstra to do as it chooses in the open market as long as it lets customers who are currently under contract to leave without penalty - which recent posts on that subject suggest they will.






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  Reply # 553515 4-Dec-2011 15:11
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I am now able to contact iTunes again and I am even download a movie to watch tonight - sorry folks, not something new, I would do it anyway...





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  Reply # 553517 4-Dec-2011 15:16
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DonGould:
Teeps:  But you also said that people had painted TC as "callous, outrageous, moronic, illegal gits" and only gave an example of one of those words.

I dont know of the legality, but do you think it is right for a company to effectively take away a service that someone has paid for to provide a service to others? If you went into a coffee shop and paid for a coffee and was just about to drink it and someone else came in and the owner gave your coffee to another customer who only bought a biscotti and left you with only the spillage left on the table to lick up would you think that is fair and legal? I wouldn't!


Fair and legal are very interesting questions here.  My casual observation is that there is little regulation that covers this sort of thing.

My take on Telstra is that it's a business that was build by just buying up a bunch of our small providers and consolidating them into one.

We built those providers with our customer for a range of reasons.  As the providers have consolidated some, many(?) of those reasons for given our patron have gone.  This isn't a new thing in the net space.

The 'new company' needs a number of customers to operate within within it's cost model of investment, so clearly Telstra are looking around to see where they can pull more customers from and wanting to step up with an offering that will pull those customers from where they are.

They also want to retain customers from jumping ship.

My current observation (with little in the way of fact to back it up, just pure speculation) is that the company is simply repositioning it's market space as I'm sure they do actually understand their current customer base every well, most providers do.

The market has a great amount of choice in it.  So while it might not be very 'fair', it would seem to me to be quite legal for Telstra to do as it chooses in the open market as long as it lets customers who are currently under contract to leave without penalty - which recent posts on that subject suggest they will.




I still don't understand why TCL did this.........
Are we naive enough to believe that customers dont want good international browsing speeds, or that we dont really need to be able to connect decently to itunes etc?

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  Reply # 553524 4-Dec-2011 15:22
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DonGould:
Teeps:  ... If you went into a coffee shop and paid for a coffee and was just about to drink it and someone else came in and the owner gave your coffee to another customer who only bought a biscotti and left you with only the spillage left on the table to lick up would you think that is fair and legal? I wouldn't!
 

Fair and legal are very interesting questions here.  My casual observation is that there is little regulation that covers this sort of thing. 

...

The market has a great amount of choice in it.  So while it might not be very 'fair', it would seem to me to be quite legal for Telstra to do as it chooses in the open market as long as it lets customers who are currently under contract to leave without penalty - which recent posts on that subject suggest they will. 




I was only talking about coffee Innocent 

 



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  Reply # 553530 4-Dec-2011 15:33
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another great weekend in Hataitai

(http://wellington.speedtest.telstraclear.co.nz/)
Last Result:
Download Speed: 201 kbps (25.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1627 kbps (203.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 114 ms
Sun Dec 04 2011 15:03:56 GMT+1300 (New Zealand Daylight Time)

big ouch.

can anyone tell me if TC have the ability to see where the bandwidth is going and pull the hogs off to restore something resembling normality to the rest of us... well normality excepting international congestion i suppose

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  Reply # 553533 4-Dec-2011 15:35
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freitasm: Could TelstraClear access through Reach impact other ISPs?


I suspect yes, but I don't know enough about the Reach space or IP to give you more than speculation sorry.

Where is MMC when you need him?






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  Reply # 553535 4-Dec-2011 15:41
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This is what I am paying Broadband rates for





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  Reply # 553537 4-Dec-2011 15:44
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KiwiNZ: This is what I am paying Broadband rates for



which suburb are you in KiwiNZ, and what are the pings like when you test TC's own servers?

http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/customer-zone/speedtest/  

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  Reply # 553543 4-Dec-2011 15:55
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KiwiNZ: This is what I am paying Broadband rates for



no your paying for a broadband connection, here's something i found under the terms and conditions

6. Speed and Usage of Services

6.1You acknowledge that statements about the speed of the Services are not guarantees about continuous speed of your Speed Plan. Where a download or upload speed is specified, the Services are capable of burstable speeds up to the speed stated. Where a download or upload speed is described as Maximum
you will receive the highest speed your broadband connection can deliver. The actual speed your broadband connection can achieve will depend on a number of things including the condition of your telephone line, the distance from your telephone exchange, the equipment you use (including your computer), the time of day you are connecting and the Internet use by others connected to the network at the same time as you.

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