4G Maori Rights?

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#697051 6-Oct-2012 09:39

networkn: Well they calculated they spend 68 Million to 72 Million each day on education and healthcare and Cullen (Not that I trust his financial information at ALL, I actually consider him a complete scumbag), said that settlements would cost between 2-3 months, so I took x (I used 100 approx but realize now it was actually 80) days and multiplied it by 68 million.

Those comments by Cullen are off the cuff remarks and long after he retired. You would think a former finance minister and former minister for treaty negotiations would be fairly accurate about that even so. Your revised figure puts that about $5.5 billion. [Edit: I see you have revised that down again to around $3 billion]

Even so it is unclear what time period he is referring to. If it is since 1975 when the Waitangi Tribunal was established it is still a very low figure averaged over that period.

As I understand it - until 1985 the Tribunal could not hear any claim for anything that happened before 1975 and took a few years to issue any judgements after 1985 because of the workload. Still it is not clear to me what was settled between 85 and 92 if anything.

The $1 billion figure since 1992 is easy to find in several places.

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Incindre

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#697079 6-Oct-2012 10:58

No. Well, sort of. I'm advocating that we finally come up with a way of recognising that the past is the past and bad things happened on both sides that doesn't involve money or other property transfers. One appropriate way of doing this might be for our country to get out of the stone age and formulate a real constitution - one which recognises Maori culture and the influence it has on our society, but finally puts an end to the endless treaty claims. Then we can write off the Treaty as having done its dash and have a worthy inclusive successor which reflects the multi-cultural nature of this great nation.

You sir get a cookie!
If this farcical series of claims keeps going and the government continues to bend over backwards for Maori and Immigrants, we'll soon be charged for the air we breath or be obliged to respect Sharia law in certain areas.
We desperately need a modern constitution which is fair on all people, no matter the colour of their skin or how long they've lived here.

freitasm

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#697082 6-Oct-2012 11:16

Just a reminder to everyone participating in this topic. Read the FUG.

This is a preemptive warning. we all know where political and social discussions end up going - so THINK before posting, before mods have to lock the thread or ban someone.

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TheMantis

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#697141 6-Oct-2012 14:39

This entire shambles makes you wish that our ancestors had just seized control of New Zealand through conquest like most other countries. Instead, they did the honorable thing and brokered a treaty agreement so we all could live here with the same rights and protections.

It's about time we all moved on and took care of far more important things.

mudguard

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#697182 6-Oct-2012 17:10

dickytim:

Yes the British took land etc from the original inhabitants, much like the Maori did before that.

What are you talking about? There was no one here before Maori.

Strongbad1905

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#697183 6-Oct-2012 17:14

I thought the Moriori were here first, eaten and then drive to the chatham islands in the 1500s by the Maoris.

mudguard

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#697209 6-Oct-2012 18:23

Strongbad1905: I thought the Moriori were here first, eaten and then drive to the chatham islands in the 1500s by the Maoris.

Nope. All Maori, but were a tribe that left to the Chathams around then, became Moriori, and then promptly forgot about each other until Maori began raiding the Chathams around 1830ish.

They forgot they were related to each other.

But to be fair, I think it was taught or in the NZ Journals for a long, long time that Moriori were here before Maori. And it's been used ever since to justify British Colonisation. But that's probably another topic!

gzt

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#697220 6-Oct-2012 18:34

Strongbad1905: I thought the Moriori were here first, eaten and then drive to the chatham islands in the 1500s by the Maoris.

This is a common belief based on education provided in New Zealand up to the late 1960's at least.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10711425

Many people still believe it and many have unknowingly passed this belief down to their own children. It can also be found reproduced in similar forms in amateur archaeology/anthropology to this day.

joutei

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Ultimate Geek

#697224 6-Oct-2012 18:43

hahahahahaha ! are you kidding me?

I thought this was a troll post, but nope .

Certain words i would love to use, but unforunately I cant :)

DonGould

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#697274 6-Oct-2012 21:17

TheMantis: This entire shambles makes you wish that our ancestors had just seized control of New Zealand through conquest like most other countries. Instead, they did the honorable thing and brokered a treaty agreement so we all could live here with the same rights and protections.

It's about time we all moved on and took care of far more important things.

My understanding was that the Dutch were eyeing up the place which is why the British made the deal.

D

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#697275 6-Oct-2012 21:25

DonGould:
TheMantis: This entire shambles makes you wish that our ancestors had just seized control of New Zealand through conquest like most other countries. Instead, they did the honorable thing and brokered a treaty agreement so we all could live here with the same rights and protections.

It's about time we all moved on and took care of far more important things.

My understanding was that the Dutch were eyeing up the place which is why the British made the deal.

Really? Damn, New Amsterdam did quite well for what it is today.

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Strongbad1905

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#697319 7-Oct-2012 00:02

Ha lol I did say I thought , for the record I didn't say I know lol. There is this also: http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/wordpress/articles/proof-of-pre-maori/

NZCrusader

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#697323 7-Oct-2012 00:34

Through reading this topic and the article in really disgusted. Cannot believe that they can claim for things that did not exist back then. Maoris need to get off their backsides and get a job just like everyone else rather than wasting time and money with never ending claims. Key and the nats just need to tell them no for once.

Here's an idea. If Maori want to claim something. How about they go and invent something useful and patent the idea.

Also I do not know how others feel about the TOW but I wasn't around at the signing of it. I didn't sign it or agree to anything. So I really don't give a stuff about the treaty. Way I see it. Its 2012 we are here to stay, they are here to stay. Might as well just act like one people rather than divided.

P.S. Appologies for the rant but enough is enough.

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gzt

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#697324 7-Oct-2012 00:43

strongbad1905: Ha lol I did say I thought , for the record I didn't say I know lol.

Yeah, I don't think anyone intended to be personal or anything.

There is this also: http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/wordpress/articles/proof-of-pre-maori/

Yeah, that 'proof' is just willful ignorance for the purpose of achieving political goals. I could go through the items on that page one at a time if you like - happy to do it but that is more suited to the conspiracy discussion thread than this one. If you do want to post it on that thread I think the mods will be happy to unlock it for that purpose.

Dratsab

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#697430 7-Oct-2012 12:15

Strongbad1905: Ha lol I did say I thought , for the record I didn't say I know lol. There is this also: http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/wordpress/articles/proof-of-pre-maori/

The kind of website subscribed to by Kyle Chapman and his ilk... Probably set up by people with like minds.

NZCrusader: Cannot believe that they can claim for things that did not exist back then.

As has been pointed out earlier, the frequencies have always existed. Depending on what theory you subscribe to, they came into being with the big bang or at the hands of a god or gods. The technology to access these frequencies didn't exist at the time. [/pedantism]

I know what you're saying though and I do struggle a little with understanding where something *no-one* had even conceptualised, let alone had knowledge of, fits into the concept of "taonga" and the protection thereof. But perhaps that's my ignorance of such matters shining through?

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