Trademe WiFi and McDonalds free wifi - can't get mail via POP

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#501447 3-Aug-2011 15:59

Beccara: Easy, block all ports and route port 80 to squid/proxy and proxy deny for Skype traffic.

Then you are not offering internet access so should not have any advertising that you are.

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#501451 3-Aug-2011 16:03

IMO blocking port 110 is a great idea if you are concerned about your customers security, but more IMO, the providers that still offer mail access on insecure pop or smtp from outside of a network they totally control are really the negligent ones.

I have had the misfortune to try to use a mcdonalds hotspot once, my VPN would not establish via it. Meaning that they are not offering internet access, as my VPN providers are both accessible via the internet.

Looking closer, they never promised internet access, just a free hotspot so I guess they are in the clear for not making false advertising.

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#501461 3-Aug-2011 16:08

richms: IMO blocking port 110 is a great idea if you are concerned about your customers security, but more IMO, the providers that still offer mail access on insecure pop or smtp from outside of a network they totally control are really the negligent ones.

I have had the misfortune to try to use a mcdonalds hotspot once, my VPN would not establish via it. Meaning that they are not offering internet access, as my VPN providers are both accessible via the internet.

Looking closer, they never promised internet access, just a free hotspot so I guess they are in the clear for not making false advertising.

I think you're being WAYYYY too harsh here by stating that offering "Internet" means you must offer complete, uncensored, unmunged access to everything.

Sometimes a pesky thing known as reality sticks its nose in and means it's operationally necessary to limit some things..

What about:

- turnng off ICMP echo from your DNS servers?
- The internal affairs child porn 'filter' (I know it's not a filter)
- blocking port 25 on many residential ADSL lines by default
- shaping or rate limiting some sites or protocols?

It sounds like if an ISP does any of the above, you'd claim they aren't offering "Internet" access.

I know where you're coming from, but I feel you're being too pedantic, and for the vast majority of people, the vast majority of the time, something like the filtered and limited protocol support of McDonalds free hotspot service actually Looks like the Internet, and Quacks like the Internet...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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#501474 3-Aug-2011 16:21

Well thats the problem without a legal definition of what internet actually is, just like there is no legal reqiurement for the same weights and measures standards to be applied to those that sell their internet by the byte etc.

There is no minimum legal performance criteria applied to internet either. But to find things like VPN's, SSL for IMAP and SMTP etc blocked which are normal internet protocols, I would expect that it would fail most reasonable peoples tests of giving internet access.

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#501478 3-Aug-2011 16:25

richms: Well thats the problem without a legal definition of what internet actually is, just like there is no legal reqiurement for the same weights and measures standards to be applied to those that sell their internet by the byte etc.

There is no minimum legal performance criteria applied to internet either. But to find things like VPN's, SSL for IMAP and SMTP etc blocked which are normal internet protocols, I would expect that it would fail most reasonable peoples tests of giving internet access.

You'd be surprised how many people don't use VPNs, or IMAP or SMTP. I'd hazard a really good guess that 'most' people wouldn't use those protocols... In fact I'd bet more than half the Internet users in NZ wouldn't even know what they are.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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#501510 3-Aug-2011 17:05

When it comes to the hotspots in hotels etc, I think that you would find that there would be a lot of people that do use those protocols.

the ones at macca's or the metro cinema foodcourt etc seem to just be frequented by student bums who are there sitting on facebook all the time so perhaps not, but overall among places that claim to offer wifi internet I think that the portion wanting to use a VPN would possibly be getting close to a half.

And why should a half matter? Hell, even if only 5% use services that are blocked, it doesnt mean that they should be able to get away with selling something that isnt what it claims to be.

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#501511 3-Aug-2011 17:06

richms: When it comes to the hotspots in hotels etc, I think that you would find that there would be a lot of people that do use those protocols.

the ones at macca's or the metro cinema foodcourt etc seem to just be frequented by student bums who are there sitting on facebook all the time so perhaps not, but overall among places that claim to offer wifi internet I think that the portion wanting to use a VPN would possibly be getting close to a half.

And why should a half matter? Hell, even if only 5% use services that are blocked, it doesnt mean that they should be able to get away with selling something that isnt what it claims to be.

But as you have said, there's no definition of "Internet" in that context...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

MaiTechnoKiwi

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#501521 3-Aug-2011 17:20

Sounds like I started a heated debate...
My email is getting flooded with "Geekzone Forum" updates.

Back to the question at the start. What would cause POP to be blocked?

Most of my WiFi users would be business people id believe as they are in corporate hotels, id say most would use VPN etc... I have limited knowledge on some of these, but believe I dont block any and wouldn't.

The other thing I hate is the restriction of speed, McDonalds I believe is restricted to 256kb.
I offer my hotspots at full speed and mention speed could be affected by the amount of users/ what they are doing etc....
I believe offering people the full service is better, if more people slow it down as the network is busy...so be it, but when you are the only one and you are getting slow speeds....nah, hate that.

I had an Internet Cafe before and 20 PC's, I didn't think twice about restricting speeds..

The most people I have seen in McD's at one time is about 4 anyways and I do see people doing business meetings alot so its not just students on facebook....

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#501522 3-Aug-2011 17:25

Really? The one on queenstreet gets packed with people on laptops during the day. Not business people clearly, and often in the metro center there is masses of them as well. 50 meg limit so I guess those that dont know about changing mac addresses would get booted pretty quickly.

Richard rich.ms

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#501528 3-Aug-2011 17:33

I'm in Whangarei, so population is not quite the same.
50 Mb's is hard to get to with the speed restrictions anyway.

Good to hear that WiFi is that popular, here it wasn't long ago people were looking at the sky when mentioning WiFi...

lchiu7

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#501538 3-Aug-2011 17:57

richms: When it comes to the hotspots in hotels etc, I think that you would find that there would be a lot of people that do use those protocols.

the ones at macca's or the metro cinema foodcourt etc seem to just be frequented by student bums who are there sitting on facebook all the time so perhaps not, but overall among places that claim to offer wifi internet I think that the portion wanting to use a VPN would possibly be getting close to a half.

And why should a half matter? Hell, even if only 5% use services that are blocked, it doesnt mean that they should be able to get away with selling something that isnt what it claims to be.

I recall when I was a frequent traveller that the wifi in the Koru Lounge blocked the port for SMTP! I have no idea why - it seemed pretty silly. Luckily my provider has another port available I could use.

For corporate mail I could use Outlook http(s) with a standard Outlook client and thankfully that wasn't blocked. After all how could you block 443 in the Koru lounge!

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talisker

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#501869 4-Aug-2011 12:46

I've found that Google Maps / Navigation on Android won't connect using McD's hotspots. That's a shame, because it would be useful when travelling to be able to cache your route at McD's before heading off on your journey, and save some data $.

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#501891 4-Aug-2011 13:15

Orewa McD's has no free wifi I discovered :( Wonder why not....

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#501915 4-Aug-2011 14:06

xpd: Orewa McD's has no free wifi I discovered :( Wonder why not....

That;s weird, they are in most of McDonald's stores in NZ.
Got to be a reason?, maybe its coming. I know there are alot of Internet Cafes there

Would like to ask a question on their offer, 50 Megabytes per day.
Do you think for a complete service it would be ideal to offer paid access also, so if you want more data than your free allocated amount you can purchase online.

I offer this type of setup and access prices are cheaper than a prepay vodem or t-stick.

My visits to McD's have been cut short sometimes and have had to plug in my T-stick for further internet. I believe others who have no problem paying may prefer at least to have an option for further internet if needed, right?

Agree/Disagree, would like peoples option.

They could offer full speed paid options also...

Anyway it was good that they put Wi-Fi in their stores as it has more people understanding the service they can provide in their own venues.... Still firmly beleive tourists during this Rugby World Cup will be sadly disappointed with the Wi-Fi offer we have.

Go Auckland also, they decided to go against the trend of all other main streets and offer PAID wifi through Tomizone, why not Free??

Talkiet

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#501918 4-Aug-2011 14:09

MaiTechnoKiwi:
xpd: Orewa McD's has no free wifi I discovered :( Wonder why not....

That;s weird, they are in most of McDonald's stores in NZ.
Got to be a reason?, maybe its coming. I know there are alot of Internet Cafes there

Would like to ask a question on their offer, 50 Megabytes per day.
Do you think for a complete service it would be ideal to offer paid access also, so if you want more data than your free allocated amount you can purchase online.

I offer this type of setup and access prices are cheaper than a prepay vodem or t-stick.

My visits to McD's have been cut short sometimes and have had to plug in my T-stick for further internet. I believe others who have no problem paying may prefer at least to have an option for further internet if needed, right?

Agree/Disagree, would like peoples option.

They could offer full speed paid options also...

Anyway it was good that they put Wi-Fi in their stores as it has more people understanding the service they can provide in their own venues.... Still firmly beleive tourists during this Rugby World Cup will be sadly disappointed with the Wi-Fi offer we have.

Go Auckland also, they decided to go against the trend of all other main streets and offer PAID wifi through Tomizone, why not Free??

Or on the other hand... You could start offering burgers and fries with your wireless Internet :-)

The point being is this is not their core competency. They would need to add support, billing systems etc which wouldn't be cheap and since the free access satisfes most people, they wouldn't have a hope in hell of making the investment back.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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