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  Reply # 56966 5-Jan-2007 10:11
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juha:
sbiddle: It would be interesting to get a Linksys WRT54G3G with HSDPA card in it and see if a hardware VoIP phone and wireless router really is an alternative to a fixed line connection for people in some rural areas who can't get ADSL but can get HSDPA.


Especially when Voda launches 900MHz UMTS...


Vodafone AtHome should be launched by then so the marketplace may change.

There isn't any logical reason why you should want to use VoIP over a fixed mobile connection like in the as the secnario above but while Vodafone are ripping people off like they are for calls then people are always going to try for cheaper ways of doing things. Hopefully their home service which will give people a local number will offer rates within the homezone that would make wanting to use VoIP a waste of time. It will just depend on how Vodafone market AtHome in NZ.

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  Reply # 56968 5-Jan-2007 10:23
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There's some interesting detail on VoIP over EV-DO Rev A here. Don't think there's any incentive for Telecom to ever provide it though.




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  Reply # 56971 5-Jan-2007 11:12
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juha: There's some interesting detail on VoIP over EV-DO Rev A here. Don't think there's any incentive for Telecom to ever provide it though.


Maybe not right now but in a few years it could be a completely different story. Once Telecom finally enter the VoIP market the ability to effectively offer people a VoIP service over fixed line with their NGN or mobile creates some very cool opportunities for them. Vodafone could do the same but on paper EV-DO is a far better platform for VoIP.

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  Reply # 56999 5-Jan-2007 14:37
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Any idea why Vodafone's 3G has higher latency than Telecom's 3G? Is it the underlying technology or the way they configure their networks? Vodafone use a lot of wireless to link their cells, whereas Telecom tend to plug their cells direct into their wired network (probably into fibre close by).
Also using VOIP over HSDPA is going to become more relevant if/when TelstraClear build their network in Tauranga. They will see this as being an alternative to ADSL.




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  Reply # 57002 5-Jan-2007 15:58
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The underlying technology from what I can tell, but I'm sure that one of the cellular network geeks here will explain it better.




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  Reply # 57011 5-Jan-2007 17:02
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coffeebaron: Also using VOIP over HSDPA is going to become more relevant if/when TelstraClear build their network in Tauranga. They will see this as being an alternative to ADSL.


I personally don't think it's got any relevence at all. VoIP over a wireless network is nice and has the potential to offer a converged service or primary phone for some customers but it's never going to replace switched calls for many years to come. There are way too many disadvantages of using VoIP over something such as HSDPA and EV-DO, primarily because of the limited bandwidth.

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  Reply # 57021 5-Jan-2007 18:44
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Ok... final test with Vodem and Harrier PDA (wmodem) today.


Vodem (umts) has a higher faster max speed....quicker.. definately... topped it at 750kbps never went below 400kbps
Average latency, 300-350ms..... VoIP..(italk) no way. Skype usable... just but forget pc-phone.

Connection quality/disconnects.
Reasonable... dropped down to GRPS only 3 times... was pretty harsh.. about 20s downtime while it swtiched.
not good though walls/objects.. not at all, just disconnects. sometime will drop to GPRS

test ping sip.commverge.co.nz 315ms avg
in contrast iHug DSL provides 50-500ms tonight.

Harrier (evdo) is slower 300kbps - 550Kbps.
Average latency, 100-135ms..... VoIP..(italk) actually quite usable though you do notice it a bit. skype works reasonably.

test ping sip.commverge.co.nz 120ms avg
in contrast iHug DSL provides 50-500ms tonight.

Connection quality/disconnects.
Good...... dropped down to 1xRTT twice.. also pretty harsh.. about 10s downtime while it swtiched.
not too bad through walls/objects... but placing hand around antenna caused it to drop to 1xRTT almost religously. it would jump back up to EVDO when idle however.

And no more Vodem from today as I no longer have a vodafone connection.

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  Reply # 57025 5-Jan-2007 19:13
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What where you doing to get the disconnects? Driving around?


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  Reply # 57027 5-Jan-2007 19:46
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nope... it held out pretty welll during the day. i'd say the disconnects were curious people crouching around it more than anything... possibly trucks going past etc.

As a web browsing tool, it's excellent.. VoIP.... well no.. but it's not designed for that. shame it did not work overseas hence the owner sending the thing back, it might have been intelligent for the account manager to have allowed international roaming when it was setup. DOH!

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  Reply # 57032 5-Jan-2007 20:38
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What codec(s) did you use for testing SIP?


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  Reply # 57047 5-Jan-2007 22:41
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sbiddle:
juha: There's some interesting detail on VoIP over EV-DO Rev A here. Don't think there's any incentive for Telecom to ever provide it though.


Maybe not right now but in a few years it could be a completely different story. Once Telecom finally enter the VoIP market the ability to effectively offer people a VoIP service over fixed line with their NGN or mobile creates some very cool opportunities for them. Vodafone could do the same but on paper EV-DO is a far better platform for VoIP.


Sorry Just to ask the question Sbiddle are you saying Telecom don't do VOIP? the Telecom website lists both IP emerge and IP evolve as well as the suite of products that Gen-I do?
Cheers Just asking what you meant?

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  Reply # 57055 5-Jan-2007 23:07
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Those are both targeted for business users (and probably not intended for mobile either).... not something that mobile or residential customers would be needing...




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  Reply # 57085 6-Jan-2007 11:33
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I downloaded Skype for Mac and tried a PC to telephone call (Auckland to Auckland landline) this morning. Not usable, extremely long delays in voice transmission and sometimes no sound at all. Background noise (music) on the other end seemed to be upsetting the system quite a lot. Bummer, now I have to figure out what to do with the 10 Euro Skype credits I have bought.

I don't understand why a PC to PC call should be better quality than PC to phone though (mentioned by Paradoxsm). Is that much quality lost just by passing through a telephone exchange and telephone wires? I would have thought most of the sound quality and delay problems would be caused by the conversion of sound from analog to digital, and the 'latency' in the network. Both of these factors would surely be the same for a PC to PC call as for a PC to phone call? I'll try a PC to PC call later and let you know the results.

One thing I did notice during my phone call. My Vodem stayed on 3G the whole time (as indicated by the blue LED on it), it never used 3G broadband at all. If there was someway I could 'persuade' my Vodem to use 3G broadband, perhaps I would achieve better results?

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  Reply # 57086 6-Jan-2007 11:37
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As far as I know switching into HSPDA mode is done automatically by the network. There doesn't appear to be any settings that one can tweak to 'force' it onto HSPDA.

You'll notice that while its in '3G' mode rather than HSPDA mode that latency tends to be a bit higher as well...




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  Reply # 57088 6-Jan-2007 11:43
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Oyajipunk: Bummer, now I have to figure out what to do with the 10 Euro Skype credits I have bought.


Send lots of SMS? :)

I don't understand why a PC to PC call should be better quality than PC to phone though (mentioned by Paradoxsm). Is that much quality lost just by passing through a telephone exchange and telephone wires? I would have thought most of the sound quality and delay problems would be caused by the conversion of sound from analog to digital, and the 'latency' in the network.


Because the PC<->PC traffic takes a much shorter route than PC<->Landline calls do. If you do a P2P call with Skype to someone in Auckland, chances are your traffic doesn't leave the city. If you call a landline however, there is no Skype to PSTN termination available (as far as I know) at this time in New Zealand. I've seen Skype calls go via Denmark, Latvia and Hong Kong to landlines. The long route means lots of latency, much more so than you would get if you establish a call between two local phones across a local exchange.

One thing I did notice during my phone call. My Vodem stayed on 3G the whole time (as indicated by the blue LED on it), it never used 3G broadband at all. If there was someway I could 'persuade' my Vodem to use 3G broadband, perhaps I would achieve better results?


Did you mean to say you were on GPRS and not UMTS, or that you were on UMTS but not HSDPA?

HSDPA will perform the best of the three but it depends on where you are if you can get it consistently. Vodafone should be able to tell you.




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