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Topic # 248126 11-Mar-2019 14:21
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Short Enquiry: Just moved over to Kiwi VOIP, taking our landline number with us from Spark. They supplied the Yeastar TA100 ATA and programmed it. Ringer just chirped (very short ring, then long silence), regardless of how I program distinctive ring. Unplug the extension lines, and it rings better, but changing the Distinctive Ringtone ring-on/off makes no difference, setting the microseconds to different lengths does nothing. Further, I need the phones throughout the house, not just the one plugged into the ATA.

 

Additionally, with the extension lines plugged it, voice cuts in and out, to the point that the person on the line gets frustrated until I unplug the extensions or we go to mobile. KiwiVoip says the ATA is probably the culprit, but they cannot recommended another ATA.

 

Anyone know an ATA made to power extensions... normal copper house wiring? It may be one with a power supply to drive the other extension phones in places like the workshed and the kitchen.

 

--------------------

 

Long story: Recently Gulf Internet on Waiheke upgraded me to unlimited/uncapped 75+/75+ mbps service. I've been running them since they began as YNET yonks ago, but as a small company in a rural area, they faced challenges. Thus, I also kept an ADSL subscription with Spark, again having been with them since 1997. When one would fail, I would switch to the other, but recently found that Gulf Internet was become stable enough to have a hard look at the $116/month Spark was charging, especially as they changed policy to charge when the household went over the 60GB cap, trying to get me to upgrade to unlimited. Having run Magic Jack VOIP for years with US lines, and sounds-like-you-are-next-door quality, I decided to begin by moving the landline over to VOIP. We hardly use the landline anymore, but enough to merit keeping it. So I signed up and KiwiVoip put in the change order for the landline.

 

I then called Spark to make sure they would remove the landline service from my account but keep the broadband, as I wanted to move slowly. The automated voice offered to call me back in 90 to 120 minutes. Yeah right. So I went to chat. The first person did not have a clue - saying my account was closed! But the second "upper tier" person was a Fawlty Towers type who managed to alienate me as a customer forever. He blamed everyone for what happened... and it took a while to understand Spark not only relinquished the voice line, they closed my broadband account. So think about this... if I had only one broadband service (Spark), the KiwiVoip would have stopped working. Surely someone anticipated this in Spark (anyone remember 2006, when then CEO of Spark, Theresa Gattung said ""Think about pricing. What has every telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine," said Gattung in a speech recorded on March 20) because this was a very effective way of making it difficult to leave.

 

But KiwiVoip was clear that all they asked to move over was the landline number; that moving broadband service requires different documentation. The best I can figure out is that my broadband is tied to the home phone number, so when that is ported away, Spark sunk me. Stupid of them losing a 22 year loyal customer, but as a former state monopoly it seems their ethos of dumb insolence is still alive and well.

 

The crazy part of this is that I used to use Spark for mobile, but shifted to Skinny, porting the number with me. Spark service was awful. Calling it a help line is inaccurate as the overseas rep every so politely provided no help. Repeating back, constantly apologising, never actually solving issues. We had an ADSL problem that took 14 months of email and phone calls to sort even though on day one I told them Chorus had just installed a new card in the box servicing their ADSL customers, and it probably had a defect. In the process, they had to repay $300 in damages and waste massive amounts of their salaried staff time. With our mobile, I went to Skinny where real Kiwis who know their stuff answer the phone in minutes or even seconds. They cost less. They allow rollover minutes for calls and broadband. The sound quality is excellent. I pay $16 for four weeks. But Skinny is owned by Spark. Maybe someone could organise a reverse takeover where everyone at Spark, starting at the board level, is sacked and all the policies rescinded, to be replaced by the Skinny model. But I digress...

 

To rub salt in the wound, I still have to pay for a month of Spark without ADSL service. I had not planned to leave Spark, but paying them to reconnect me for their mistake (or bad policy) was more than I was prepared to take on. So now I am on one service for broadband supporting another VOIP service, trying to get everything debugged and operational; hence my looking for advice on an ATA that properly powers extension lines on the house wiring. Too bad Magic Jack does not port over NZ land lines.

 

All I want is a clear phone land line and good broadband that works with VOIP be it ATA TA100, Magic Jack, Skype, WhatsApp, WeChat, etc.

 

I am also not convinced that KiwiVoip is the right vendor. Price is right, but their support guy - who tries hard - lacks ATA knowledge. Unplugging the extension lines is not a good answer. He does not know enough about other ATA devices, especially ones made for a house with conventional phone wiring where wireless phones cannot penetrate the 300mm solid walls. I've read the discussion on domestic VOIP, and discovered WXC and Hero VOIP services, but have not gone further than looking at their web sites. Anyone in 2019 have a recommendation for best, reasonably priced VOIP?


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  Reply # 2195873 11-Mar-2019 14:42
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How many phones do you have?

 

Sounds like you're probably exceeding the REN. Each phone has a REN value on the Telepermit sticker and the ATA will also list it's REN either on the PTC sticker, by searching the PTC website, or looking at the specs. A typical ATA REN is around 3.

 

Phone's typically have a REN of around 1.0, but some will be a lot higher and some lower. There is NO solution to "increase" the REN value of the ATA - if you exceed this and encounter your issue the only fix is to unplug phones so you're not exceeding the REN.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2195891 11-Mar-2019 14:53
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After trailing a range of ATA's over the years, including the Yeastar; I have gone back to only using these: Cisco SPA112 

 

Alternatively, Yealink DECT IP phones are a great pure VoIP option.

 

 

 

 





Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 2195904 11-Mar-2019 15:02
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  • One desk phone (primary phone near ATA) - REN 0.3B (battery)
  • Kitchen phone - REN 1.0B
  • Studio Phone - REN 1.0B
  • Workshop phone - REN 1

However with all unplugged except the REN 0.3B someone just called, and the sound quality was horrible - continual interrupts to the point it was hard to talk.

 

Looking up Specs on AT100, no REN supported number is shown at yeastar.com/analog-telephone-adapter/ unless it is embedded in a standard that I do not understand.

 

 


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  Reply # 2195953 11-Mar-2019 15:44
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Villager:

 

  • One desk phone (primary phone near ATA) - REN 0.3B (battery)
  • Kitchen phone - REN 1.0B
  • Studio Phone - REN 1.0B
  • Workshop phone - REN 1

However with all unplugged except the REN 0.3B someone just called, and the sound quality was horrible - continual interrupts to the point it was hard to talk.

 

 

"Continual interrupts" of a call is very different issue to phone(s) not ringing. If you're getting voice breakup that's an issue with your connection or saturation of bandwidth.

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 2196004 11-Mar-2019 17:13
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sbiddle:

 

Villager:

 

  • One desk phone (primary phone near ATA) - REN 0.3B (battery)
  • Kitchen phone - REN 1.0B
  • Studio Phone - REN 1.0B
  • Workshop phone - REN 1

However with all unplugged except the REN 0.3B someone just called, and the sound quality was horrible - continual interrupts to the point it was hard to talk.

 

 

"Continual interrupts" of a call is very different issue to phone(s) not ringing. If you're getting voice breakup that's an issue with your connection or saturation of bandwidth.

 

 

I am making progress. Turns out the dead Spark line was not unplugged from the house. Doing that now gives me a long ringtone. Too long. Programming distinctive ringtones on the TA100 has no effect. Anyone know how to program the Yeastar TA100 distinctive ringtone in the advanced settings in the Gateway tab? I can live with the ringing, but would like to get to sound right.

 

As for the other issue, voice interrupt, I called my ISP who will start diagnosis. However, he says we are using 10% of the radio's capacity. I did move the Kiwi VOIP ethernet cable to a separate ethernet port to ensure it is not conflicting with the Magic Jack VOIPs.

 

Thanks for the info on REN. Learning something new every day.


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  Reply # 2196006 11-Mar-2019 17:19
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Villager:

 

I am making progress. Turns out the dead Spark line was not unplugged from the house.

 

 

Very common, this allows a remote activation to happen rather than tech coming out.

 

 

 

Remember to restore it if you move out, otherwise the next customer will get an intact install, Failed self install and have a wait to get a tech callout.





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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  Reply # 2196010 11-Mar-2019 17:28
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By the time we move out, copper will be long gone. But good advice in general.




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  Reply # 2196016 11-Mar-2019 17:54
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Anyone know how to program a Yeastar TA100 distinctive ringtone in the advanced settings in the Gateway tab ?


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  Reply # 2196083 11-Mar-2019 19:55
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Have you set it to NZ tones?




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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  Reply # 2196121 11-Mar-2019 21:24
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Villager:

 

Anyone know how to program a Yeastar TA100 distinctive ringtone in the advanced settings in the Gateway tab ?

 

 

I'm confused why you keep bringing up distinctive ringtones. What are you trying to achieve?

 

I'm not aware of 2talk (Kiwi VoIP is just a reseller last I looked) supporting SIP distinctive ring capabilities.

 

If your ATA doesn't have correct NZ cadences configured for dialtones and progress tones you should be going back to them and asking for it to be configured correctly. This is nothing to do with distinctive ring.

 

Are you confusing distinctive ring with something else?

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2196123 11-Mar-2019 21:28
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Villager:

 

But KiwiVoip was clear that all they asked to move over was the landline number; that moving broadband service requires different documentation. The best I can figure out is that my broadband is tied to the home phone number, so when that is ported away, Spark sunk me. Stupid of them losing a 22 year loyal customer, but as a former state monopoly it seems their ethos of dumb insolence is still alive and well.

 

 

It should be made clear here that Spark haven't done anything wrong here - that's perfectly normal.

 

Kiwi VoIP should understand (and advised you) that this would happen. You were obviously on a Spark plan that associated both services so porting out the PSTN number would result in disconnection of the broadband unless they advised them otherwise so Spark would convert this to a naked broadband plan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2196128 11-Mar-2019 21:35
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sbiddle:

 

It should be made clear here that Spark haven't done anything wrong here - that's perfectly normal.

 

Kiwi VoIP should understand (and advised you) that this would happen. You were obviously on a Spark plan that associated both services so porting out the PSTN number would result in disconnection of the broadband unless they advised them otherwise so Spark would convert this to a naked broadband plan.

 

 

Just to be clear, Steve is correct here. PSTN number binds both the copper service and the DSL circuit.

 

 

 

The best way to do this would have been to customerlink the PSTN number and then transfer it out.





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 2196133 11-Mar-2019 21:43
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Why do Spark insist on maintaining this policy from the 90s though?! Even Vodafone manage to leave DSL circuits behind after a number port now.

How long ago did DSL become the primary product instead of the POTS line?!

More than anything, I think this is just a case of if you dont know what you're doing, dont try and organise your own porting/transfers of service. Its not Kiwivoip's job to understand how each telco is going to handle a port. They just did as instructed, which was port the phone number.

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  Reply # 2196141 11-Mar-2019 22:02
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chevrolux: Why do Spark insist on maintaining this policy from the 90s though?! Even Vodafone manage to leave DSL circuits behind after a number port now.

How long ago did DSL become the primary product instead of the POTS line?!

More than anything, I think this is just a case of if you dont know what you're doing, dont try and organise your own porting/transfers of service. Its not Kiwivoip's job to understand how each telco is going to handle a port. They just did as instructed, which was port the phone number.

 

DSL runs on that same stack (given it is maintained)

 

I personally love that stack, It's simple. It's fast, it just does what it should.

 

 

 

to reengineer that is massive, not just for spark. Remember there is still the whole wholesale voice product there etc.

 

Considering as part of a port you need to collect details such as the LSP, it's not hard to have a note saying to advise dsl would be lost if provider is X or Y.

 

 

 

i'd liken it to folk who have a RSP provided email, port out their services and wonder why their old providers email service stops working.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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  Reply # 2196167 11-Mar-2019 22:54
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sbiddle:

 

[

 

I'm confused why you keep bringing up distinctive ringtones. What are you trying to achieve?

 

 

 

I'm not aware of 2talk (Kiwi VoIP is just a reseller last I looked) supporting SIP distinctive ring capabilities.

 

 

 

If your ATA doesn't have correct NZ cadences configured for dialtones and progress tones you should be going back to them and asking for it to be configured correctly. This is nothing to do with distinctive ring.

 

 

 

Are you confusing distinctive ring with something else?

 

 

Ringtones: I am asking how the programming works, if anyone knows. See screenshot, below

 

KiwiVoip: I was unaware they were a reseller

 

ATA: I bought the device from KiwiVoip and they set it up before sending it to me. When it was not working correctly, I spoke with them, but in the end they are not sufficiently familiar with it, hence I am turning to geekzone and learning a lot more than I expected... all I wanted was the phone to work.

 

Confusion: This is what I am addressing. 

 


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