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  Reply # 2196181 11-Mar-2019 23:44
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hio77:

 

sbiddle:

 

It should be made clear here that Spark haven't done anything wrong here - that's perfectly normal.

 

Kiwi VoIP should understand (and advised you) that this would happen. You were obviously on a Spark plan that associated both services so porting out the PSTN number would result in disconnection of the broadband unless they advised them otherwise so Spark would convert this to a naked broadband plan.

 

 

Just to be clear, Steve is correct here. PSTN number binds both the copper service and the DSL circuit.

 

 

 

The best way to do this would have been to customerlink the PSTN number and then transfer it out.

 

 

Spark Wrong: I don't wish to get into a discussion about who is right or wrong. Suffice it to say that in my view Spark relies on its market dominance and is woefully deficit in customer relations, and it lost a customer of 22 years.

 

Kiwi Voip should understand: Well, they don't. They still don't. They may even disagree with the above assertions.

 

Best way: This is the geekzone, thus I understand that on this forum, customerlink the PSTN number is as natural as breathing air. However, my online spellchecker does not know what customerlink means, or PSTN.

 

Back in the day, programmers talks about bugs and holes. A bug was defective programming. A hole was correct programming without a fence. Every so often a user - who expects everything to work - falls into a hole because there was no fence around it. In the commercial environment, senior management would view holes as bad as bugs - even worse because the tech people would then make the customer feel bad by telling them it was their fault they fell into the hole... which BTW is my sense of some of the commentary on this thread. Senior management would disagree. Their senior accountant would book good will as an asset, and customers falling into holes resulted in far more damage to goodwill than bugs. As a result, lifesaver policies were put into place to respond to hole events to preserve the asset of good will, and to make sure things like this commentary never made it into a forum where the company loses control. 

 

The Spark procedure is a hole. In a company sensitive to maintaining its good will it would have had a hole policy. With such a policy, the chat would have run like this...

 

I am very sorry this happened to you, I can understand how frustrating it is. It happened because the landline number is tied to the broadband, thus when you moved the landline it pulled down the account. However, you would not have known that, and I accept your telling me that KiwiVoip did not either. So, we will immediately pass this on to our customer support team who will fix everything in the backend, with a new ID number, so you will have naked broadband on the same automatic bank payment as before. And because this was upsetting to you, and may take a few days to fix, I am authorised to give you a one-month credit as a way of thanking you for your 22 years of loyalty. In addition, our senior management will reach out to KiwiVoip senior management to advise them of the impact of VOIP porting so this won't happen to others in the future.

 

Let's parse this.

 

  • First, apologise. The customer is always right, even if at the water cooler you say what an idiot they were... remember, the customer pays your salary.
  • Next empathise. Put yourself in the customer's shoes, at the bottom of a dark hole after a crash down, when all they were doing was minding their own business
  • Third, explain. Set out the facts of why they were in the dark, feeling bruised and upset, but do it in a way that does not admit legal liability
  • Fourth, have procedures in place to hit the reset button, to fix what when wrong so the customer is happy. Losing one customer is regarded as a disaster in customer-centric companies, FIX THE PROBLEM/keep the customer.
  • Fifth, make a gift. A hundred bucks is not going to damage a company with a $6.79 billion market cap, but it takes all the sting out for the customer who tells their friends what a good company they are
  • Finally, commit to contacting the other party, and do so, rather than point fingers and say it is the other company's fault.

That would have been the best way. But it did not happen in this case. I told the story of what did happen... telling it from the bottom of a hole where all I want is to get my landline to work and my backup ADSL operational. 

 

This has turned into a bit of a lecture on how to run a company. I speak from experience having run five tech companies, four as CEO. All my companies grew, they never lost market share. Why? Because I told my customers I wanted to hear from them at 3 a.m. rather than my competitors hearing about it at 9 a.m. the next day. And if you think this is the luxury of a small company, try sending an email to jeff@amazon.com about something not right with Amazon. He has a whole team of P.A.'s whose sole job is to deal with holes in the Amazon system. I speak from experience, and while there are many aspects of Amazon that deeply worry me, when it comes to customer focus, they know how to run a company. End of the sermon.

 

 


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  Reply # 2196208 12-Mar-2019 07:21
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chevrolux:  Its not Kiwivoip's job to understand how each telco is going to handle a port. They just did as instructed, which was port the phone number.

 

I don't fully agree with that. There are a multitude of things that can be affected by ports incl broadband, smartphone services and steppers. In most cases the provider doing the porting will be well aware of these as decisions will need to be made by them before a port can be completed (ie how to proceed). 

 

Without naming any names here the problem is resellers of some big providers will have no visibility over this, so can't act on it. I've seen some big disasters of the years with people who simply have no idea what they're doing.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2196247 12-Mar-2019 07:32
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Villager:

 

 

 

Spark Wrong: I don't wish to get into a discussion about who is right or wrong. Suffice it to say that in my view Spark relies on its market dominance and is woefully deficit in customer relations, and it lost a customer of 22 years.

 

….

 

The Spark procedure is a hole. In a company sensitive to maintaining its good will it would have had a hole policy. With such a policy, the chat would have run like this...

 

I am very sorry this happened to you, I can understand how frustrating it is. It happened because the landline number is tied to the broadband, thus when you moved the landline it pulled down the account. However, you would not have known that, and I accept your telling me that KiwiVoip did not either. So, we will immediately pass this on to our customer support team who will fix everything in the backend, with a new ID number, so you will have naked broadband on the same automatic bank payment as before. And because this was upsetting to you, and may take a few days to fix, I am authorised to give you a one-month credit as a way of thanking you for your 22 years of loyalty. In addition, our senior management will reach out to KiwiVoip senior management to advise them of the impact of VOIP porting so this won't happen to others in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please don't turn this into a Spark hate thread if you want any help from me.

 

Spark did nothing wrong, they do not have a "hole" and their policy is unchanged and well known in the industry. The consequences of porting a PSTN number from Spark as well as VoIP numbers from some other providers who are well known in the industry and will result in disconnection of xDSL services (or with at least one other provider, abandonment of UFB services as well).

 

If your new provider didn't advise you of this, you can hardly blame your old provider who would have had no knowledge of your planned actions or intentions. I would be incredibly surprised if your new provider was not aware of this policy unless they've never ever ported a Spark number before (which is highly unlikely) so if they didn't advise you then they're the only ones you can blame here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2196250 12-Mar-2019 07:38
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Villager:

 

sbiddle:

 

[

 

I'm confused why you keep bringing up distinctive ringtones. What are you trying to achieve?

 

 

 

I'm not aware of 2talk (Kiwi VoIP is just a reseller last I looked) supporting SIP distinctive ring capabilities.

 

 

 

If your ATA doesn't have correct NZ cadences configured for dialtones and progress tones you should be going back to them and asking for it to be configured correctly. This is nothing to do with distinctive ring.

 

 

 

Are you confusing distinctive ring with something else?

 

 

Ringtones: I am asking how the programming works, if anyone knows. See screenshot, below

 

KiwiVoip: I was unaware they were a reseller

 

ATA: I bought the device from KiwiVoip and they set it up before sending it to me. When it was not working correctly, I spoke with them, but in the end they are not sufficiently familiar with it, hence I am turning to geekzone and learning a lot more than I expected... all I wanted was the phone to work.

 

Confusion: This is what I am addressing. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't really provide any further help because I don't understand what issue you're trying to solve.

 

You keep bringing up distinctive ring and are listing ring cadences. What does this have to do with anything? Distinctive ring is not something you'll be using on your VoIP service.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2196268 12-Mar-2019 08:02
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You might be using distinctive ring tones to forward inbound calls from a fax sip line as opposed to a voice one, but to use it to change the ring cadance is not what it's explicitly there for, ensure you have NZ dial settings if the current ring is incorrect.

Cyril



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  Reply # 2196287 12-Mar-2019 08:32
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cyril7: You might be using distinctive ring tones to forward inbound calls from a fax sip line as opposed to a voice one, but to use it to change the ring cadance is not what it's explicitly there for, ensure you have NZ dial settings if the current ring is incorrect.

Cyril

 

I am unable to find where to set the NZ dial settings, would you know where?

 

I have read the user manual at yeastar.com/download/Yeastar_TA100&TA200_User_Manual_en.pdf but do not find anything obvious. (sorry, insufficient posts to allow posting link)

 

Here are the menu selections, let me know which one might have the dial settings and I will take a screen shot of that. There is nothing obvious, like country dial settings or a default like US

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2196296 12-Mar-2019 09:05
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What firmware version is the ATA? It should be 44.19.0.30, if not update it.





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  Reply # 2196392 12-Mar-2019 09:57
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coffeebaron:

 

What firmware version is the ATA? It should be 44.19.0.30, if not update it.

 

 

Thanks so much... that was the answer. The ATA firmware was 44.19.0.16. Updating added a new menu item [Tone Zone Settings], where the default was US. Changed to NZ and the phone now is back to normal.

 

The other issue - chopped voice appears to be a broadband issue that the ISP is addressing. Apparently there is interference at 5,800 MHz interfering with the radio signal. It may be a rogue WiFi signal (I removed all our wireless phones and it is better, but still not fixed) or something in the ISP's system they need to ID and sort.

 

Once all of this is sorted, I will have cut our monthly telecommunications bill from $180 to $42, saving $1,650 a year and upgrading to uncapped, full speed, wide bandwidth service from the much slower, capped service.




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  Reply # 2196402 12-Mar-2019 10:19
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SOLVED: SETTING THE YEASTAR TA100 ATA TO WORK IN NZ

 

For future reference.

 

If you have shifted your NZ land line to VOIP and have a Yeastar TA100 ATA, the ringtone may sound off. If you don't see Tone Zone Settings on the Gateway tab, the answer may be to first to check the firmware. Go to https://www.yeastar.com/firmware-download/ and compare the release number with your Status/System info menu option on your ATA control panel (accessed by its IP number - see your ATA device for a sticker on the outside with the default ID and Password). If it is an earlier version, select the BIN link address (as of this writing version 44.19.0.30, it's http://www.yeastar.com/download/TA100_TA200/44.19.0.30.bin, but this will change as new versions are released) and copy the link address. Select the System tab in your control panel and choose firmware update. Paste in the link and then allow 5-10 minutes to update... do not unplug. When done, clear your cache before you sign back on. Then go to Gateway tab and look for Tone Zone Settings. Change to NZ.

 

Other issues. If you have dropped the copper line for your VOIP, but have your building wired for extensions, be sure to physically break the connection to the outside world so the extensions ring, but the ATA is not electronically connected to the Chorus copper wire grid. The break point is probably where the phone line came into the building. If you are dropping voice, but want to keep ADSL, call a technician to cut the phone but keep the naked broadband unless you have sufficient tech knowledge. Remember to tell any future tenants or buyers what you have done, so if they order service, they know it needs a physical reconnect.

 

The ATA supports about REN 3.0. Check the REN of each phone (usually on the bottom of the phone) and add them up. If more than 3.0 total, look into buying a REN booster.


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  Reply # 2196403 12-Mar-2019 10:21
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Do you get 75/75 uncapped for less than $42 off Gulf Internet? (I'm assuming KiwiVOIP charges you something per month)

 

 




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  Reply # 2196404 12-Mar-2019 10:23
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trig42:

 

Do you get 75/75 uncapped for less than $42 off Gulf Internet? (I'm assuming KiwiVOIP charges you something per month)

 

 

 

Yes, but the details are confidential.


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  Reply # 2196405 12-Mar-2019 10:25
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Villager:

 

trig42:

 

Do you get 75/75 uncapped for less than $42 off Gulf Internet? (I'm assuming KiwiVOIP charges you something per month)

 

 

 

Yes, but the details are confidential.

 

 

 

 

Ahh, so not something anyone could get. Maybe you've got one of their antenna on your property somewhere.

 

 

 

I won't bother contacting them then, I'll stick with my UFB connection.




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  Reply # 2196417 12-Mar-2019 10:30
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trig42:

 

Villager:

 

trig42:

 

Do you get 75/75 uncapped for less than $42 off Gulf Internet? (I'm assuming KiwiVOIP charges you something per month)

 

 

 

Yes, but the details are confidential.

 

 

 

 

Ahh, so not something anyone could get. Maybe you've got one of their antenna on your property somewhere.

 

 

 

I won't bother contacting them then, I'll stick with my UFB connection.

 

 

Can't comment on details, but this 11/11 unlimited is the most competitive I've found in NZ.

 


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  Reply # 2196502 12-Mar-2019 13:09
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Villager:

 

The other issue - chopped voice appears to be a broadband issue that the ISP is addressing. Apparently there is interference at 5,800 MHz interfering with the radio signal. It may be a rogue WiFi signal (I removed all our wireless phones and it is better, but still not fixed) or something in the ISP's system they need to ID and sort.

 

 

I wonder what metric one uses to classify a wifi signal as 'rogue'. Perhaps 'competing' may be a better description? If said wifi signal was, for example, an entirely valid and public-license-compliant data link (that just happens to be moving a lot of traffic and therefore generating a lot of interference), the only thing I can think of is that the commercial provider of services feels aggrieved that others are using the public spectrum they seek to employ for their product. But is that really a fair position to take?

 

 


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  Reply # 2196520 12-Mar-2019 13:46
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hio77:

 

chevrolux: Why do Spark insist on maintaining this policy from the 90s though?! Even Vodafone manage to leave DSL circuits behind after a number port now.

How long ago did DSL become the primary product instead of the POTS line?!

More than anything, I think this is just a case of if you dont know what you're doing, dont try and organise your own porting/transfers of service. Its not Kiwivoip's job to understand how each telco is going to handle a port. They just did as instructed, which was port the phone number.

 

I personally love that stack, It's simple. It's fast, it just does what it should.

 

to reengineer that is massive, not just for spark. Remember there is still the whole wholesale voice product there etc.

 

Considering as part of a port you need to collect details such as the LSP, it's not hard to have a note saying to advise dsl would be lost if provider is X or Y.

 

 

Fair enough, so just ride it out until the old stack can be switched off with the move to CCN?


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