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DonGould

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  #530103 6-Oct-2011 14:04
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TelstraClear: Although the cause of the problem is outside our network, on behalf of our customers we’ve asked our international traffic providers to raise this with the website companies concerned. As long as this issue exists, we will continue to point out to those websites the impact on our customers and the less-than-satisfactory experience they will be having when visiting the websites.


Well last time I had one of these issues I:

* Posted on the NOG of the offending country
* Got heads up from a number of people they were also impacted.
* Got people with more clue than I to prove the fault.
* Got ppl with clue to ping eng's in third country.
* Rang hosting company in said locations to make sure they had heads up.

Problem was solve within 48 hours, NOG list confirmed that problem was also gone for other providers who had previously spent 3 months banging head trying to get same fault fixed.

How can I help fix this little glitch?








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Ledgy
92 posts

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  #530117 6-Oct-2011 14:25
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With all the hops & browsing issues under this topic in the end it just sucks we are in New Zealand. We're just a small country in the pacific. We just got to learn to live with the issues being so far away from mainstream.

dets00b
60 posts

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  #530129 6-Oct-2011 14:33
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This might be why I've been having trouble resolving this site.




nickt
86 posts

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  #530130 6-Oct-2011 14:34
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I disagree actually. If the best case connection to California is ~ 200ms, and traffic is actually taking more than twice that for reasons of mis-configured routing within reach.com (or whatever the real issue is) then it's completely fair to point it out.

oryan
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  #530140 6-Oct-2011 14:56
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sorry to hijack your thread, but i think it may be a bigger problem than just telstra clear.
I am having the exact same issues using my vodafone connection.

However I have a snap internet connection in the same property, and I do not have any issues through this connection.

So maybe, just a thought, maybe something with the telecom exchange. Anyway again sorry for hijacking your thread. :D

freitasm
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  #530147 6-Oct-2011 15:04
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Oryan, please note this is not the same problem as yours. Also note many involved here are on TelstraClear cable, which means Telecom is not involved at all, so your conclusion is wrong from the start.





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TelstraClear
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  #530158 6-Oct-2011 15:23
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Hi all,

I'm told that the visual trace route tool does a whois on the IP addresses in the hop and reads the registered address. It won't be mapping the actual route. All Reach addresses are registered to Hong Kong and all Google to Mountain View CA, for example.

Gary



Clai
13 posts

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  #530249 6-Oct-2011 16:44
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TelstraClear: Hi all,

I'm told that the visual trace route tool does a whois on the IP addresses in the hop and reads the registered address. It won't be mapping the actual route. All Reach addresses are registered to Hong Kong and all Google to Mountain View CA, for example.

Gary


This mirrors the performance I am receiving on my own TelstraClear cable connection. Despite this visual trace route tool reading a route through Hong Kong, I still get 150-200ms ping to the servers tested and can use services on them at correct speeds and latency.
For example I get the same route to "Hong Kong" when trace routing from my IP to yougetsignal.com and back, but actual responses from the server average at 150-160ms.

From my own experiences I would suggest the visual trace route information is not a reliable source in relation to Google website performance as of late, but I may not be experiencing the same problem.

freitasm
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  #530265 6-Oct-2011 16:57
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The "Visual trace route" won't actually (and obviously) go to each hop and ask "wru?"... What it does is to get the IP address of each hop and then look up the location based on that IP address, then graph on a map.

It's no different than we doing a tracert and then manually doing a lookup of the IP address.

Will it get right? Not all the time. Will it be a good tool to give a sense of "so many hops, so long, something wrong"? Probably.





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Clai
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  #530284 6-Oct-2011 17:27
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Of course. This is information for those who have not tested further, as I am seeing results of my own trace routes going straight from Reach to Cogent in LA (Fast, low latency ~150ms), where Google sites and the host of this tool are the exceptions (Slow, high latency ~450ms, a lot of additional hops after Reach nodes).
Some have been quick to point the finger at a potential TCL routing issue, but it seems it is not that clear cut.

DonGould

3892 posts

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  #530288 6-Oct-2011 17:38
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DonGould:

# host www.google.co.nz 203.97.78.43
Using domain server:
Name: 203.97.78.43
Address: 203.97.78.43#53
Aliases:

www.google.co.nz is an alias for www.google.com.
www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.149
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.152
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.155
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.146

# host www.google.co.nz 203.97.78.44
Using domain server:
Name: 203.97.78.44
Address: 203.97.78.44#53
Aliases:

www.google.co.nz is an alias for www.google.com.
www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.155
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.146
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.149
www.l.google.com has address 203.97.30.152



host www.google.co.nz 203.97.78.43
Using domain server:
Name: 203.97.78.43
Address: 203.97.78.43#53
Aliases:

www.google.co.nz is an alias for www.google.com.
www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.19
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.20
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.16
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.17
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.18


# host www.google.co.nz 203.97.78.44
Using domain server:
Name: 203.97.78.44
Address: 203.97.78.44#53
Aliases:

www.google.co.nz is an alias for www.google.com.
www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.18
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.19
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.20
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.16
www.l.google.com has address 74.125.237.17

Routing, DNS...  pffft... who knows.

Bottom line - unresolved.





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DonGould

3892 posts

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  #530292 6-Oct-2011 17:50
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Clai: Some have been quick to point the finger at a potential TCL routing issue, but it seems it is not that clear cut.


Yes.  I think we have all moved on from there. 

I think my 'tin foil hat' comments alluded to the fact that we understand that we don't really understand what's going on.  We know that we don't know how the layer 2 connections are working, we don't really have any idea where the google traffic is being picked up.

Gary's answer is fairly clear/obvious what he's saying.

I'm wondering what else we could/should do as users to help this problem along?










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futility
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  #530351 6-Oct-2011 20:36
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freitasm: The "Visual trace route" won't actually (and obviously) go to each hop and ask "wru?"... What it does is to get the IP address of each hop and then look up the location based on that IP address, then graph on a map.

It's no different than we doing a tracert and then manually doing a lookup of the IP address.

Will it get right? Not all the time. Will it be a good tool to give a sense of "so many hops, so long, something wrong"? Probably.



There is no protocol that discloses the location of an IP address nor is there a central authority or registry of which country each IP address belongs in. There are commercial databases or 'geolocation/geoip' services run by private companies that attempt to map IP address to location using various metrics with varying degrees of accuracy, it IS all guesswork however.

What this 'tool' you are using does is simply a whois lookup against the IP address, reporting the contact or billing address of the company it is registered to. This is completely meaningless information from a routing perspective. It does a 'tracert' initially to find the IP addresses but doesn't display that information, it doesn't even appear to query a geoip provider (hint: they cost money to use in volume).

freitasm
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  #530387 6-Oct-2011 22:01
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Yes, I know those things work. We use the same kind of "IP-based geolocation" here on Geekzone. I know how reliable or not it can be.




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futility
3 posts

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  #530479 7-Oct-2011 09:56
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freitasm: Yes, I know those things work. We use the same kind of "IP-based geolocation" here on Geekzone. I know how reliable or not it can be.


So you're knowingly posting misleading and meaningless information in this thread and on your blog?

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