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nathan
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  #948540 10-Dec-2013 10:40
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macuser: I'm more than happy with 'metro' as a start/search function. Seems more useful than Windows 7 because the search is better at finding files/programs. It's also a breath of fresh air when I have 20 browser windows/explorer windows + all my desktop programs open.

Although I use the desktop environment for all my work and don't use the metro apps, I do on my surface pro 2/envy x2 as they offer a better touch experience and are smoother.

To me it's more disappointing that Microsoft is going back so quickly on all the features that it was confident that would push the company forward.

I have never once used the start button in Windows 8.1, as I learnt in Win 8 to use the start key on my keyboard.


you know what they say about assuming rumours on the Internet are true...

macuser
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  #948541 10-Dec-2013 10:45
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nathan:
macuser: I'm more than happy with 'metro' as a start/search function. Seems more useful than Windows 7 because the search is better at finding files/programs. It's also a breath of fresh air when I have 20 browser windows/explorer windows + all my desktop programs open.

Although I use the desktop environment for all my work and don't use the metro apps, I do on my surface pro 2/envy x2 as they offer a better touch experience and are smoother.

To me it's more disappointing that Microsoft is going back so quickly on all the features that it was confident that would push the company forward.

I have never once used the start button in Windows 8.1, as I learnt in Win 8 to use the start key on my keyboard.


you know what they say about assuming rumours on the Internet are true...


 

Guess we'll see when builds start leaking 

Batman
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  #948570 10-Dec-2013 11:17
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If they want to compete with their arch enemy they'd better give what's left of their customers what they want before they ...




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




MikeB4
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  #948581 10-Dec-2013 11:31
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The main competitor to Windows 8.1 is Microsoft.

TwoSeven
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  #948678 10-Dec-2013 13:34
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I am not too fussed about the start menu - In win 8.1 I have it starting in the desktop and pretty much all my important desktop apps on the task bar. For anything else I am happy to go looking for it now I have discovered the tiny down arrow on the start menu.

Apps tiled on the desktop just like normal desktop applications is probably a key feature - especially around multi-tasking and multi-app-use (cross app tasks). I always wondered why the Win RT subsystem was not integrated into the desktop shell in the same way that Win32 apps were. I can understand the partitioning for WinRT only systems, but not for desktop based devices.

Maybe if it happens someone might be admitting that the desktop is still a key feature to keep around which we desktop 'power users' have been saying all along - just because the hardware form factor is changing, doesn't mean to say the 'methods-of-use' are :)




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timmmay
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  #948682 10-Dec-2013 13:38
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I never bothered with W8 because of all the bad press. If they make it work like W7 I might consider it, if there are benefits. Are there any real benefits of W8.x over W7?

robjg63
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  #948683 10-Dec-2013 13:41
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The thing I miss the most is START/All programs from the desktop.
Of course there are 3rd party tools that bring it back - but why MS trashed it I dont know.

On the metro UI its unusable once you get a few useful programs installed - it goes on forever.
Fine if you use about three programs, but like many people I install all sorts of goodies on my PC - I actually use it!

Likewise I miss Start/Control Panel.

Apart from that windows 8 (8.1) seems stable enough - but then so is/was windows 7.




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler




KevDaly
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  #948691 10-Dec-2013 13:53
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If they ever do anything like this it should including letting .NET-for-Don't-Call-It-Metro and WinRT loosen their belts a bit for the desktop environment. At the moment you have highly constrained (if I wanted to be contentious I might say "dumbed down") APIs missing features that are even present in the Silverlight equivalents (although that's improved somewhat in 8.1), intended for the constraints of highly resource-strapped devices. Those constraints (no, they're not all about "keeping you safe") make no sense on a full PC.

The WinRT Projection system is actually very good, and if extended to the bulk of Windows could enable something like what we were originally promised with Longhorn.

Something nobody ever mentions is Aero - I know it's typically thought to have been simply a gratuitous waste of resources (especially Aero Glass) in the service of eye candy, but personally I like eye candy and I thought it was beautiful. I miss it, but that's one thing I never expect to see return.

nathan
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  #948766 10-Dec-2013 15:32
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timmmay: I never bothered with W8 because of all the bad press. If they make it work like W7 I might consider it, if there are benefits. Are there any real benefits of W8.x over W7?


Here's why I run Windows 8.1 over Windows 7

Less memory and disk foot print, faster bootup

Multi-Mon improvements, splitting taskbar across multiple monitors
High-DPI and per-display DPI Scaling Support

Client Hyper-V virtualisation Improvements including "enhanced session mode” which enables a high fidelity graphics experience Variable, Continuous size Modern app Snap View, depending on screen size and resolution, you can even share the screen with three, or four Modern apps on each monitor.

Start Screen all apps view
have desktop background appear behind Start Screen
Boot to Desktop

DirectX 11.2

BYOD Enhancements:
Workplace Join
Work Folders
Open MDM - native OMA-DM support built for Mobile Device Management products
built in VPN clients
auto-triggered VPN
Wi-Fi Direct Printing
Native Miracast Wireless Display
NFC Tap-to-pair Printing
Mobile broadband and Broadband tethering builtin
Remote business data removal

native fingerprint based biometric support
Pervasive Device Encryption built in to all versions now
Windows Defender does network behaviour monitoring now
Device Lockdown with Assigned Access you can "kiosk mode" your PC/tablet

nathan
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  #948774 10-Dec-2013 15:42
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robjg63: The thing I miss the most is START/All programs from the desktop.
Of course there are 3rd party tools that bring it back - but why MS trashed it I dont know.

On the metro UI its unusable once you get a few useful programs installed - it goes on forever.
Fine if you use about three programs, but like many people I install all sorts of goodies on my PC - I actually use it!

Likewise I miss Start/Control Panel.

Apart from that windows 8 (8.1) seems stable enough - but then so is/was windows 7.


Think about upgrading to Windows 8.1

Start, All Programs is there in 8.1, Click Start, then the bottom arrow on the screen to get to All Aps view (this can be sorted by date installed, name, most used, and category) In category you can zoom out with the mouse or touchscreen and get "Program Group" view

All Apps can be set as the default view in Windows 8.1 now

"it goes on forever" Windows 8.1 only puts the things on the Start Screen that you want, so it won't fill up the menu like Windows 8 does

of course Search is your friend here, type in what you're looking for on the Start Screen and search will kick in

If you don't know what you're looking for, see above for the All Apps view and filtering there

You could even navigate to the hidden folder that is located at C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
Copy or create the shortcut in this folder
Either use search to locate your shortcut or navigate to all you programs
Right click the shortcut and choose Pin to Start.

or set that directory as a new toolbar (right click on task bar, toolbars, new toolbar, then navigate as per above)



timmmay
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  #948787 10-Dec-2013 15:53
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Interesting, though for most people though improvements are pretty much irrelevant.

mattwnz
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  #948794 10-Dec-2013 15:58
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timmmay: Interesting, though for most people though improvements are pretty much irrelevant.


I agree, although still like windows 8.1 rt on my tablet. But using desktop on a tablet is terrible due to the resolution of the screen where everyting is tiny, and this includes the office 2013 apps which are supposed to be for windows 8, yet they only run in desktop mode . The things I miss in windows 8.1 are the blurred transparency of the window borders in desktop mode, as well as flip 3d which you get in vista/7. Ironically apple have now got that sort of blurred transparency in IOS7. But windows 8 does make an older computer run better than windows 7 and xp, as I have it running very well on a 2008 era computer, and it runs like a new PC.

I do think that the metro live tiles are a far better touch homescreen interface than you get with ios on the ipad (just rows of dumb icons), but the notifications and control centre on the ipad(which is very similar to androids) is far better than windows system. Some of the settings/control panel stuff you still have to go into the desktop mode for eg viewing batter life remaining.

nathan
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  #948795 10-Dec-2013 15:58
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timmmay: Interesting, though for most people though improvements are pretty much irrelevant.


personally I don't think many of those improvements are irrelevant :)

I would put 8.1 on just for the multi monitor enhancements alone

timmmay
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  #948850 10-Dec-2013 17:13
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I only use one monitor at home ;)

TwoSeven
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  #948874 10-Dec-2013 18:09
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nathan:
timmmay: I never bothered with W8 because of all the bad press. If they make it work like W7 I might consider it, if there are benefits. Are there any real benefits of W8.x over W7?


Here's why I run Windows 8.1 over Windows 7

Less memory and disk foot print, faster bootup

Multi-Mon improvements, splitting taskbar across multiple monitors
High-DPI and per-display DPI Scaling Support

Client Hyper-V virtualisation Improvements including "enhanced session mode” which enables a high fidelity graphics experience Variable, Continuous size Modern app Snap View, depending on screen size and resolution, you can even share the screen with three, or four Modern apps on each monitor.

Start Screen all apps view
have desktop background appear behind Start Screen
Boot to Desktop

DirectX 11.2

BYOD Enhancements:
Workplace Join
Work Folders
Open MDM - native OMA-DM support built for Mobile Device Management products
built in VPN clients
auto-triggered VPN
Wi-Fi Direct Printing
Native Miracast Wireless Display
NFC Tap-to-pair Printing
Mobile broadband and Broadband tethering builtin
Remote business data removal

native fingerprint based biometric support
Pervasive Device Encryption built in to all versions now
Windows Defender does network behaviour monitoring now
Device Lockdown with Assigned Access you can "kiosk mode" your PC/tablet


Well, since you have in-depth knowledge of Hyper-V on windows 8.1 you can answer my question in this thread.

Actually, I am aware of all of those features as a developer and they are pretty neat, however, 80% (or some such large number) just want to use the apps they have and have them work like they used to.  Also, some of the features are really good for enterprises, but we are just standard end users.  Although I will give a +1 for Miracast, Mobile broadband tethering (and the ability to monitor traffic) as well as the Advanced Remote desktop.

Personally, I think the biggest win that could happen is if we could buy Visual Studio Ultimate edition (including Test Manager, Lab Manager and SCVMM) and TFS without the MSDN subscription. If it were me I would set the pricing at $1500 and $500 respectively.  Back in the day one used to be able to purchase the complete MS dev. kit for a couple of weeks wages,  now a MSDN subscription is nearly half a years wages + the annual renewal, and for home developers, we probably don't need it  - especially if we could make use of the cloud to fill in the blanks.





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