Microsoft might bring back Start Menu, Modern UI apps on desktop

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597 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 949088 11-Dec-2013 07:36

ScuL:
charsleysa: I really hope they don't, those who cannot use the Windows 8 UI either are incapable of change or wish to be ignorant to change.
I enjoy the new UI, it makes things easier. In fact some things are easier to do on Windows 8, but the only thing that springs to mind that's more difficult is pairing a bluetooth device because it requires an extra step.

How about don't fix what isn't broken? The previous interface has worked fine from 95 onward to NT, 98, ME, 2000, Vista and 7 and millions of people are accustomed to this workflow.

The best solution to this problem is to allow the user to choose - and this has not been allowed - instead people have been forced, and now Microsoft are crawling back on their decisions..
What you find easier may not be easier for another person. It would be much nicer if the OS was a bit more customisable with the ability to pick different themes (i.e. Aero Glass vs. Metro). Switch start menu on or off, switch metro launcher on or off, change sizes / colours of menu's and so forth and allow people to create "UI" presets that can be distributed across corporate networks to keep the business happy. If they had done that the resistance would not have been as strong.

This kind of thinking is the incorrect way to look at windows 8.
You say don't fix what isn't broken, but windows 8 didn't aim to fix the desktop. The aim of Windows 8 was to provide a new generation of UI that would be the same across all devices.

The new UI hasn't removed any functionality, it's just changed the look. All the things the start menu had are still there, there's still an "All Programs" section, there's still a "My Computer" it's just called "This PC", etc.

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Stefan Andres Charsley

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# 949098 11-Dec-2013 08:08

I can understand the resistance to change and recall way back when Dos was around and when I changed from 6.22 to Windows 3.1/11 it was a whole new world and I thought it was great.

When it went to Win 95 I remember the critics but once again I thought it was a good change, likewise Win 2000, XP and 7 , nothing changes really here we are debating win 8 same arguments really

TBH I haven't had a real play with 8 but will at some stage but can't afford or justify the cost, maybe if MS offered free upgrades from 7 I would, hint hint Nathan ;)

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sbiddle

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# 949112 11-Dec-2013 08:35

jeffnz:

TBH I haven't had a real play with 8 but will at some stage but can't afford or justify the cost, maybe if MS offered free upgrades from 7 I would, hint hint Nathan ;)

You could have upgraded for only $19.99 when Windows 8 launched.

ScuL

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# 949119 11-Dec-2013 08:41

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charsleysa:

This kind of thinking is the incorrect way to look at windows 8.
You say don't fix what isn't broken, but windows 8 didn't aim to fix the desktop. The aim of Windows 8 was to provide a new generation of UI that would be the same across all devices.

The new UI hasn't removed any functionality, it's just changed the look. All the things the start menu had are still there, there's still an "All Programs" section, there's still a "My Computer" it's just called "This PC", etc.

Fair enough but who decides what is the correct way or the incorrect way of thinking?
What is correct for one person may not be correct for another.

It's all good to come up with a "one fits all" type UI aimed at unifying tablet/mobile usage with the desktop but you should at least accommodate people who have the desire to operate in the traditional workflow and offer a toggle between the different looks. Personally I don't own a tablet and don't think I will own one in the feature because I don't find them useful. Most things I do on the move I can do with a smart phone and for bigger stuff there's a laptop.

There is nothing wrong with the functionality of Win8 under the hood, it seems to be more efficient and has improved hardware interfacing from what I can see. How useful that is is another discussion, some features may be more relevant than others.

The most amusing thing is that with the amount of criticism on-line they're now slowly taking steps back in 8.1 and next up 8.2 if we have to believe the rumours online

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# 949125 11-Dec-2013 09:02

ScuL:
Fair enough but who decides what is the correct way or the incorrect way of thinking?
What is correct for one person may not be correct for another.

Exactly this, I don't want to be dictated to about how I should use a computer.

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# 949127 11-Dec-2013 09:17

except for the fact we have always been dictated to how to use a computer over the years if you look at it that way. With Dos, and all versions of windows you used what Microsoft designed. Same with Apple etc. Even Linux you use whatever manager someone has made unless you are clever enough to design your own operating system.

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# 949133 11-Dec-2013 09:24

I played with Windows8 numerous times during the beta and hated many aspects of it. I then got a new laptop in August that came with 8 (and had no choice but to use it as HP didn't release Win7 drivers until Sept) and have so say I don't see why there are so many haters. I love it.

On my machine I run in desktop mode 99% of the time and have a start menu replacement app that I still use. With this the experience is virtually identical to Win7 with all the added performance gains that 8 offers. There are only a couple of things that annoy me, and they're focused around apps such as the built in photo show and music player that are Metro apps, not desktop apps.

Others have commented on here that the issue is with people wanting to replicate the desktop experience. I disagree and believe the issue is with the Metro UI. On a touchscreen device the Metro UI is great using 8.1, but the major problem is the number of Metro apps is so low you spend half your life back in desktop mode with a UI that's not designed for touch devices.

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# 949135 11-Dec-2013 09:29

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Gilco2: except for the fact we have always been dictated to how to use a computer over the years if you look at it that way. With Dos, and all versions of windows you used what Microsoft designed. Same with Apple etc. Even Linux you use whatever manager someone has made unless you are clever enough to design your own operating system.

Yes there are restrictions, and what I've gotten used to since first using a computer in the mid 80s is what's formed my opinion what the "right" way of using the computer is. I use a mixture of W7 and Linux (mainly xfce) day to day for software development and have been for 14 years, I have a certain way of working and personally don't see a need to change. I run W8 in a VM when I need to test for that.

All Microsoft needed to do was leave the Start menu and turning off Metro as an option and they would have made most people happy (and hopefully that's what this article is indicating they're doing). I shouldn't have had to use a 3rd party tool on my new laptop, in my case Start8 and ModernMix, to get the environment that I want - and even that isn't perfect. It's a Samsung Ativ 9 and unfortunately I couldn't find all the drivers for W7 otherwise I'd just run that.

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# 950488 11-Dec-2013 16:50

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charsleysa:

The aim of Windows 8 was to provide a new generation of UI that would be the same across all devices.

Which is a pretty dumb idea given the use cases of portable touch devices vs desktop are completely different..

You don't see IOS on the iMac or Macbook, just on the ipad and iphone where it belongs. I appreciate what MS tried to do but I think there should have been a global switch between tablet mode and dekstop mode rather than a mish-mash of two UI's.

The touch UI gets in the way on a desktop with a mouse/keyboard and multiple monitors.

Neilsen's UX review nails the problems with Win 8 at release
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/windows-8-disappointing-usability/

To be fair 8.1 improves things quite a bit with boot to desktop, go to desktop when all apps are closed etc etc... I would like to see further desktop focused improvements in 8.x though.

Ragnor

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# 950492 11-Dec-2013 16:53

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sbiddle:
On my machine I run in desktop mode 99% of the time and have a start menu replacement app that I still use.

It's pretty broken when you have to install a third party app to make your desktop pc / non tough laptop usable.

However things are being improved.

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# 950496 11-Dec-2013 16:57

Ragnor:
charsleysa:

The aim of Windows 8 was to provide a new generation of UI that would be the same across all devices.

Which is a pretty dumb idea given the use cases of portable touch devices vs desktop are completely different..

You don't see IOS on the iMac or Macbook, just on the ipad and iphone where it belongs. I appreciate what MS tried to do but I think there should have been a global switch between tablet mode and dekstop mode rather than a mish-mash of two UI's.

The touch UI gets in the way on a desktop with a mouse/keyboard and multiple monitors.

Neilsen's UX review nails the problems with Win 8 at release
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/windows-8-disappointing-usability/

To be fair 8.1 improves things quite a bit with boot to desktop, go to desktop when all apps are closed etc etc... I would like to see further desktop focused improvements in 8.x though.

whatabout touchscreen laptops? are they desktop or tablets?

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

Ragnor

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# 950498 11-Dec-2013 17:01

joker97:

whatabout touchscreen laptops? are they desktop or tablets?

Both but not at the same time, like I said I think there should be a clearer overall toggle/switch between the two UI's (tablet mode and desktop mode) not a mis-mash.

charsleysa

597 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 950516 11-Dec-2013 17:26

sbiddle: I played with Windows8 numerous times during the beta and hated many aspects of it. I then got a new laptop in August that came with 8 (and had no choice but to use it as HP didn't release Win7 drivers until Sept) and have so say I don't see why there are so many haters. I love it.

On my machine I run in desktop mode 99% of the time and have a start menu replacement app that I still use. With this the experience is virtually identical to Win7 with all the added performance gains that 8 offers. There are only a couple of things that annoy me, and they're focused around apps such as the built in photo show and music player that are Metro apps, not desktop apps.

Others have commented on here that the issue is with people wanting to replicate the desktop experience. I disagree and believe the issue is with the Metro UI. On a touchscreen device the Metro UI is great using 8.1, but the major problem is the number of Metro apps is so low you spend half your life back in desktop mode with a UI that's not designed for touch devices.

Windows 8 still has the Windows 7 Media apps, so you're not forced to use the Metro ones, they are just set to be the default ones.

I still don't see the need for a start menu replacement when the start menu is still there in Windows 8, it just looks different to make it touch friendly. Finding something is easier with the Windows 8.1 search sidebar.

I should make note that I compound all the improvements of Windows 8.1 when I talk about Windows 8 so people should retry Windows 8 with the 8.1 update as there are quite a few subtle improvements that make it easier, such as the little down arrow at the bottom of the start screen that show all programs.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

charsleysa

597 posts

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# 950522 11-Dec-2013 17:35

Ragnor:
charsleysa:

The aim of Windows 8 was to provide a new generation of UI that would be the same across all devices.

Which is a pretty dumb idea given the use cases of portable touch devices vs desktop are completely different..

You don't see IOS on the iMac or Macbook, just on the ipad and iphone where it belongs. I appreciate what MS tried to do but I think there should have been a global switch between tablet mode and dekstop mode rather than a mish-mash of two UI's.

The touch UI gets in the way on a desktop with a mouse/keyboard and multiple monitors.

Neilsen's UX review nails the problems with Win 8 at release
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/windows-8-disappointing-usability/

To be fair 8.1 improves things quite a bit with boot to desktop, go to desktop when all apps are closed etc etc... I would like to see further desktop focused improvements in 8.x though.

Who ever wrote that review sounds like a dumba$$. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the menus have buttons which you can click, you don't need shadows to tell you where the buttons are.
If he thinks people are that stupid that they need shows to tell them where buttons are then he obviously hasn't seen the Facebook user base figures. Facebook's UI is just as flat as the Windows 8 UI.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

surfisup1000

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# 950539 11-Dec-2013 17:43

charsleysa:

Who ever wrote that review sounds like a dumba$$.

Because you are right?

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