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2644 posts

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  # 1022543 9-Apr-2014 23:32
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nathan:

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people


I know you work for them and more or less have to defend them, but that really is pushing "spin" beyond the bounds of credibility.

They pushed it out knowing that it would be unpopular with a large portion of their user base (one of the key devs has admitted this), and then tried to ignore loud screaming from the userbase and tanking sales for almost a year. When low uptake finally made them realise (grudgingly) that they had to do something, they offered a half-assed solution that wasn't what was being asked for (reinstating a faux facsimile of the start menu, and still trying to force people into the metro environment). After another long period of kicking and screaming from the userbase, and stubbornly disappointing sales, MS has gritted its teeth and finally said it will give people what they wanted - and what was the minimum that should have been included in the first build.

It's not striking me as a company that is happily listening and striving to please people by giving them what they want. Rather, it's a company that is consistently displaying breathtaking arrogance, insisting it knows best, and trying to force what suits its business strategy down the throats of a userbase that plainly, in large measure, wants something different. Only when faced with a strategy that is plainly failing to deliver the penetration it wants, does it finally do under duress what the many of the users have wanted all along. And which it's fairly obvious should have been included as an option from first release.




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  # 1022550 10-Apr-2014 00:21
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Want Windows 8.x but don't want to launch apps from desktop, taskbar or Start Screen shortcuts?

Hunt and peck hierarchical start menu is the preferred app launching method? either run Windows 7, download a Start Menu replacement - there's a variety out there, or right click taskbar, new toolbar, %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

 
 
 
 


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  # 1022551 10-Apr-2014 00:36
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nathan: Want Windows 8.x but don't want to launch apps from desktop, taskbar or Start Screen shortcuts?

Hunt and peck hierarchical start menu is the preferred app launching method? either run Windows 7, download a Start Menu replacement - there's a variety out there, or right click taskbar, new toolbar, %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

Start 8 works lovely. I bet Nathan Uses it too!

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  # 1022583 10-Apr-2014 07:16
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Personally, Windows 8 Desktop Mode + command line + keyboard shortcuts has made me work faster.

If I need something on start menu, windows key + start typing and search will find it.



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  # 1022593 10-Apr-2014 08:01
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wasabi2k: Personally, Windows 8 Desktop Mode + command line + keyboard shortcuts has made me work faster.

If I need something on start menu, windows key + start typing and search will find it.




Totally agree.

I have all my frequently used apps pinned to the Taskbar, everything else is found via Windows (keyboard) Key + start typing. Easy and super efficient!

Personally a start menu is of no use to me any more.

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  # 1022594 10-Apr-2014 08:05
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TimA:
nathan: Want Windows 8.x but don't want to launch apps from desktop, taskbar or Start Screen shortcuts?

Hunt and peck hierarchical start menu is the preferred app launching method? either run Windows 7, download a Start Menu replacement - there's a variety out there, or right click taskbar, new toolbar, %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

Start 8 works lovely. I bet Nathan Uses it too!


nope, i have no need to hunt & peck through a fly out menu

my common apps are pinned to my taskbar, anything else i hit the Windows key or Start button and type

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  # 1022611 10-Apr-2014 08:37
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Some of the posters in this thread need to read Who Moved My Cheese

 
 
 
 


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  # 1022633 10-Apr-2014 09:36
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JimmyH:
nathan:

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people


I know you work for them and more or less have to defend them, but that really is pushing "spin" beyond the bounds of credibility.

They pushed it out knowing that it would be unpopular with a large portion of their user base (one of the key devs has admitted this), and then tried to ignore loud screaming from the userbase and tanking sales for almost a year. When low uptake finally made them realise (grudgingly) that they had to do something, they offered a half-assed solution that wasn't what was being asked for (reinstating a faux facsimile of the start menu, and still trying to force people into the metro environment). After another long period of kicking and screaming from the userbase, and stubbornly disappointing sales, MS has gritted its teeth and finally said it will give people what they wanted - and what was the minimum that should have been included in the first build.

It's not striking me as a company that is happily listening and striving to please people by giving them what they want. Rather, it's a company that is consistently displaying breathtaking arrogance, insisting it knows best, and trying to force what suits its business strategy down the throats of a userbase that plainly, in large measure, wants something different. Only when faced with a strategy that is plainly failing to deliver the penetration it wants, does it finally do under duress what the many of the users have wanted all along. And which it's fairly obvious should have been included as an option from first release.





I agree here.

Windows 8 from a business point of view is a complete failure. I cannot and will not recommend it to any of my clients. It is far too confusing.

There really is no excuse for not having a option of the old start menu back.

Its quite simple really, Windows 8 ignored the business user base, so they in tern will ignore Windows 8. 

How has it taken this long to see progress? It's joke that it has taken Microsoft this long to give us the option back!

A 3rd party start menu replacement is not a solution to this! You shouldn't have to buy one and support a second piece of software which should be unnecessary. I'm not even getting into the fact that even with a 3rd party app, Metro Apps still cause added issues.

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  # 1022637 10-Apr-2014 09:49
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nathan: sure thing. on my non touch machines, I never really spend any time in Modern environment at all

On my tablet I'm in and out of it all day as I walk around between meetings, out on the road etc

But the flexibility/openness of the Windows platform means you can essentially turn off Modern environment, there's a plethora of utilities, you can add the start menu back by right clicking, adding a new toolbar

agree most people don't have touch screens today

Most new devices are touch though

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people


With respect Nathan, the feedback you say MS got, you got VERY VERY early on, and ignored it then, it was only when sales didn't meet expectations that MS "listened". MS has continued to be very bullish about W8 all along and I see remnants of it in your comments.

In my opinion the whole thing has been handled badly, and I wish MS would just admit it graciously. What annoyed me the most was Microsoft long standing assertion that only a few die hard people didn't like the metro screen and that the VAST majority of people loved it. Simply wishing it doesn't make it so.

There are a lot of things I like about W8, I have converted all my machines, but there are things which as a non touch device owner I strongly dislike.

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  # 1022638 10-Apr-2014 09:49
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I don't think lacking a Start menu is a big deal, as all applications (traditional and modern) are listed in the Start screen, just a button away, in a flat structure. Searching is easy too.

What really interested me though was talking to someone this week who just started using Windows 8 and asked "How can I watch a movie in a small window while I work on a document?" The WMV was open in the Modern UI Video app. I showed him how to split screen, but his reply was "It uses half of my screen I just need a small window so I can keep working. And how do I close it?"

I explained there was a shipping of [X] buttons arriving for modern apps with Windows 8.1 Update this week so he was a bit more comfortable, but still not happy.






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  # 1022640 10-Apr-2014 09:53
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freitasm: I don't think lacking a Start menu is a big deal, as all applications (traditional and modern) are listed in the Start screen, just a button away, in a flat structure. Searching is easy too.

What really interested me though was talking to someone this week who just started using Windows 8 and asked "How can I watch a movie" in a small window while I work on a document? The WMV was open in the Modern UI Video app. I showed him how to split screen, but his reply was "It uses half of my screen I just need a small window so I can keep working. And how do I close it?"

I explained there was a shipping of [X] buttons arriving for modern apps with Windows 8.1 Update this week so he was a bit more comfortable, but still not happy.




Agreed. Lots of little things like this are a much bigger pain point than I think MS is prepared to admit. Even in W7, I used search over hunt and peck, however in now way does the metro start seem faster to me than the old format if the item I want isn't found via search (yes it does happen and more often than it should) or wasn't in the first screen.

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  # 1022642 10-Apr-2014 09:56
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I miss being able to open my computer or control panel easily, Thats where the start menu comes in handy. Also looking through your installed files list is really helpful.
The X button wouldnt matter in the modem interface to me. 

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  # 1022660 10-Apr-2014 10:02
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TimA: I miss being able to open my computer or control panel easily, Thats where the start menu comes in handy. Also looking through your installed files list is really helpful.
The X button wouldnt matter in the modem interface to me. 


I never used the Start menu to open Computer or Control Panel. Window-E will open explorer and both are just a click away.




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Ultimate Geek


  # 1022661 10-Apr-2014 10:04
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freitasm: I don't think lacking a Start menu is a big deal, as all applications (traditional and modern) are listed in the Start screen, just a button away, in a flat structure. Searching is easy too.

What really interested me though was talking to someone this week who just started using Windows 8 and asked "How can I watch a movie in a small window while I work on a document?" The WMV was open in the Modern UI Video app. I showed him how to split screen, but his reply was "It uses half of my screen I just need a small window so I can keep working. And how do I close it?"

I explained there was a shipping of [X] buttons arriving for modern apps with Windows 8.1 Update this week so he was a bit more comfortable, but still not happy.




This is a big issue, the modern interface taken over what people are used to. Taking some one who knew how to multi-task and effectively (to them) making them do one task at a time.

That being said, I feel the start stat menu is still a big issue. First of all, it came out hiding some of the installed apps, you had to know to right click and select "All apps". Though that may be fixed, it is still in efficient. If you install a whole lot of programs you are left with scrolling through pages, rather than the old, structured, folder approach (which I should add people have got used to). Who wants to see every tool that came with their printer? Why not put it in a folder? We've got backwards.

Windows 8 throws a huge spanner in the works for those that are not tech enthusiasts as it turns their world upside down. It then kills efficiency for technical people like myself who used the old start menu to its fullest potential.

All and all, i'm sticking with Windows 7 for the foreseeable future.



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  # 1022663 10-Apr-2014 10:05
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TimA: I miss being able to open my computer or control panel easily 


Pin them to your Taskbar.

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