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  # 1022894 10-Apr-2014 14:26
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surfisup1000: And another annoyance (i'm starting to use win8 more)  --- when i click the metro button in the bottom left corner and start typing the name of the app, the search box and results are displayed in the top right corner (ie, complete opposite).   So, you have to navigate the mouse miles away to the total opposite side of the screen.   

Just a little thing, but it shows they did not consider UI efficiency. 

Windows 7 had it right, search results appear close to the start button. 




"navigate miles away" wow! you have a huge monitor




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1022918 10-Apr-2014 15:03
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KiwiNZ:
surfisup1000: And another annoyance (i'm starting to use win8 more)  --- when i click the metro button in the bottom left corner and start typing the name of the app, the search box and results are displayed in the top right corner (ie, complete opposite).   So, you have to navigate the mouse miles away to the total opposite side of the screen.   

Just a little thing, but it shows they did not consider UI efficiency. 

Windows 7 had it right, search results appear close to the start button. 




"navigate miles away" wow! you have a huge monitor


Well, i did say it was a 'little' issue but my point is that it is another example of something that reduces productivity in win8 .   The cumulative effective of all the little things does add up. 

 
 
 
 


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  # 1022934 10-Apr-2014 15:09
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surfisup1000:
KiwiNZ:
surfisup1000: And another annoyance (i'm starting to use win8 more)  --- when i click the metro button in the bottom left corner and start typing the name of the app, the search box and results are displayed in the top right corner (ie, complete opposite).   So, you have to navigate the mouse miles away to the total opposite side of the screen.   

Just a little thing, but it shows they did not consider UI efficiency. 

Windows 7 had it right, search results appear close to the start button. 




"navigate miles away" wow! you have a huge monitor


Well, i did say it was a 'little' issue but my point is that it is another example of something that reduces productivity in win8 .   The cumulative effective of all the little things does add up. 


To locate an App I just click on the search icon in the top right of the Start screen or click Windows key +s




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1023012 10-Apr-2014 17:00
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KiwiNZ:
surfisup1000:
KiwiNZ:
surfisup1000: And another annoyance (i'm starting to use win8 more)  --- when i click the metro button in the bottom left corner and start typing the name of the app, the search box and results are displayed in the top right corner (ie, complete opposite).   So, you have to navigate the mouse miles away to the total opposite side of the screen.   

Just a little thing, but it shows they did not consider UI efficiency. 

Windows 7 had it right, search results appear close to the start button. 




"navigate miles away" wow! you have a huge monitor


Well, i did say it was a 'little' issue but my point is that it is another example of something that reduces productivity in win8 .   The cumulative effective of all the little things does add up. 


To locate an App I just click on the search icon in the top right of the Start screen or click Windows key +s


Or hit start and start typing?

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  # 1023035 10-Apr-2014 17:56
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nathan:
ArcticSilver:
JimmyH:
nathan:

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people


I know you work for them and more or less have to defend them, but that really is pushing "spin" beyond the bounds of credibility.

They pushed it out knowing that it would be unpopular with a large portion of their user base (one of the key devs has admitted this), and then tried to ignore loud screaming from the userbase and tanking sales for almost a year. When low uptake finally made them realise (grudgingly) that they had to do something, they offered a half-assed solution that wasn't what was being asked for (reinstating a faux facsimile of the start menu, and still trying to force people into the metro environment). After another long period of kicking and screaming from the userbase, and stubbornly disappointing sales, MS has gritted its teeth and finally said it will give people what they wanted - and what was the minimum that should have been included in the first build.

It's not striking me as a company that is happily listening and striving to please people by giving them what they want. Rather, it's a company that is consistently displaying breathtaking arrogance, insisting it knows best, and trying to force what suits its business strategy down the throats of a userbase that plainly, in large measure, wants something different. Only when faced with a strategy that is plainly failing to deliver the penetration it wants, does it finally do under duress what the many of the users have wanted all along. And which it's fairly obvious should have been included as an option from first release.





I agree here.

Windows 8 from a business point of view is a complete failure. I cannot and will not recommend it to any of my clients. It is far too confusing.

There really is no excuse for not having a option of the old start menu back.

Its quite simple really, Windows 8 ignored the business user base, so they in tern will ignore Windows 8. 

How has it taken this long to see progress? It's joke that it has taken Microsoft this long to give us the option back!

A 3rd party start menu replacement is not a solution to this! You shouldn't have to buy one and support a second piece of software which should be unnecessary. I'm not even getting into the fact that even with a 3rd party app, Metro Apps still cause added issues.


we have businesses in NZ rolling out large scale deployments (I'm talking hundreds of devices, and in some cases thousands) of Windows 8 on both desktops (with out touch) tablets, and hybrid tablet/laptops

They don't find it far too confusing

Just because you think its a complete failure from a business point of view doesn't mean that's true


I should of said, from my point of view, for businesses it is a complete failure.

I have had plenty of experiences with Windows 8 in the small business world (I run my own IT company) and most of them have been rife with issues. 

For instance, one of my clients has a Windows 8 Laptop. The other day I had to attend a call out to his house because he could not access any of his business tools. When I got there I found out Windows had updated to 8.1 and he was being FORCED to log into a Microsoft account, which he did not have. He had tried to login with his local account credentials (because why wouldn't he, it was just an update right?). This made the computer UNUSABLE for him. Why is this even a requirement!?

Then there's another one of my clients who opened a PDF and it opened FULL SCREEN in the metro interface (which he never uses). He had absolutely no clue as to how to exit this interface (though this is now, hopefully fixed with update 1!).

What about shutting down? How do you do that? We'll, most of my clients now have a shutdown shortcut on their desktop, because that is better than telling them to move the mouse to the top right corner of the screen, click SETTINGS and then select shutdown!

And don't let me even get started with Microsoft Office and Skydrive intergration (or should I say OneDrive).

Windows 8 had been a usability nightmare for quite a few IT companies I know.

I could go on, but there are plenty of examples on the web.


I don't believe Windows 8 is unstable, my main gripe is usability.

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  # 1023038 10-Apr-2014 18:03
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nathan: ...or right click taskbar, new toolbar, %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs


I actually like this approach, but when I do it, as soon as I 'lock' the new toolbar, It shows a tiny fraction of the first folder, and no matter how I resize, I can't get rid of it.







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  # 1023040 10-Apr-2014 18:05
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ArcticSilver: When I got there I found out Windows had updated to 8.1 and he was being FORCED to log into a Microsoft account, which he did not have. He had tried to login with his local account credentials (because why wouldn't he, it was just an update right?). This made the computer UNUSABLE for him. Why is this even a requirement!?


Windows does/did not auto update from 8.0 to 8.1 as far as I know.
Somebody must have done the upgrade.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1023042 10-Apr-2014 18:24
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Klipspringer:
ArcticSilver: When I got there I found out Windows had updated to 8.1 and he was being FORCED to log into a Microsoft account, which he did not have. He had tried to login with his local account credentials (because why wouldn't he, it was just an update right?). This made the computer UNUSABLE for him. Why is this even a requirement!?


Windows does/did not auto update from 8.0 to 8.1 as far as I know.
Somebody must have done the upgrade.


indeed it doesn't autoupdate

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  # 1023046 10-Apr-2014 18:36
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is there a link to this update? (*continues on his googling ...) [my windows store has been disabled in an attempt to figure out why my laptop has insomnia]




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1023050 10-Apr-2014 18:43
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*blushes*




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1023051 10-Apr-2014 18:53
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joker97: *blushes*


You just old school thats all ...
I'm the same LOL

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  # 1023055 10-Apr-2014 19:06
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ArcticSilver:
nathan:
ArcticSilver:
JimmyH:
nathan:

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people


I know you work for them and more or less have to defend them, but that really is pushing "spin" beyond the bounds of credibility.

They pushed it out knowing that it would be unpopular with a large portion of their user base (one of the key devs has admitted this), and then tried to ignore loud screaming from the userbase and tanking sales for almost a year. When low uptake finally made them realise (grudgingly) that they had to do something, they offered a half-assed solution that wasn't what was being asked for (reinstating a faux facsimile of the start menu, and still trying to force people into the metro environment). After another long period of kicking and screaming from the userbase, and stubbornly disappointing sales, MS has gritted its teeth and finally said it will give people what they wanted - and what was the minimum that should have been included in the first build.

It's not striking me as a company that is happily listening and striving to please people by giving them what they want. Rather, it's a company that is consistently displaying breathtaking arrogance, insisting it knows best, and trying to force what suits its business strategy down the throats of a userbase that plainly, in large measure, wants something different. Only when faced with a strategy that is plainly failing to deliver the penetration it wants, does it finally do under duress what the many of the users have wanted all along. And which it's fairly obvious should have been included as an option from first release.





I agree here.

Windows 8 from a business point of view is a complete failure. I cannot and will not recommend it to any of my clients. It is far too confusing.

There really is no excuse for not having a option of the old start menu back.

Its quite simple really, Windows 8 ignored the business user base, so they in tern will ignore Windows 8. 

How has it taken this long to see progress? It's joke that it has taken Microsoft this long to give us the option back!

A 3rd party start menu replacement is not a solution to this! You shouldn't have to buy one and support a second piece of software which should be unnecessary. I'm not even getting into the fact that even with a 3rd party app, Metro Apps still cause added issues.


we have businesses in NZ rolling out large scale deployments (I'm talking hundreds of devices, and in some cases thousands) of Windows 8 on both desktops (with out touch) tablets, and hybrid tablet/laptops

They don't find it far too confusing

Just because you think its a complete failure from a business point of view doesn't mean that's true


I should of said, from my point of view, for businesses it is a complete failure.

I have had plenty of experiences with Windows 8 in the small business world (I run my own IT company) and most of them have been rife with issues. 

For instance, one of my clients has a Windows 8 Laptop. The other day I had to attend a call out to his house because he could not access any of his business tools. When I got there I found out Windows had updated to 8.1 and he was being FORCED to log into a Microsoft account, which he did not have. He had tried to login with his local account credentials (because why wouldn't he, it was just an update right?). This made the computer UNUSABLE for him. Why is this even a requirement!?

Then there's another one of my clients who opened a PDF and it opened FULL SCREEN in the metro interface (which he never uses). He had absolutely no clue as to how to exit this interface (though this is now, hopefully fixed with update 1!).

What about shutting down? How do you do that? We'll, most of my clients now have a shutdown shortcut on their desktop, because that is better than telling them to move the mouse to the top right corner of the screen, click SETTINGS and then select shutdown!

And don't let me even get started with Microsoft Office and Skydrive intergration (or should I say OneDrive).

Windows 8 had been a usability nightmare for quite a few IT companies I know.

I could go on, but there are plenty of examples on the web.

I don't believe Windows 8 is unstable, my main gripe is usability.


the simplest way to get around the Microsoft account requirement is to pull the network plug out temporarily

Why is Microsoft account a requirement?  why is an Apple ID required on an iPad/iPhone?  What is a Google ID required on Android Phones/Tablets?
To remove the friction, to make it easy for people to download apps, use Cloud services, sync settings, do backups etc

Opening PDFs, PDF Reader is build into Windows 8.  So instead the customer would prefer the PDF file didn't open?  Obviously you can install Acrobat Reader/Foxit Reader etc and then the PDF will open in the desktop viewer.  Close an app, sure you need to know to drag down with your Mouse, or keyboard ALT+F4 which has been the close keyboard command for decades.  Yes Windows 8.1 Update adds in the minimise/close icons to the Modern apps

Shutting down, you push the physical power button, you don't shutdown - you let your PC sleep, you hit ALT+F4 in the desktop (which has been that way for decades), you hit Windows Key + I, you right click on the Start Button and click Shutdown.  With Windows 8.1 Update there is a Power Button now on the Start Screen

what's up with your OneDrive integration?

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  # 1023092 10-Apr-2014 20:14
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nathan:

the simplest way to get around the Microsoft account requirement is to pull the network plug out temporarily



And are all these workarounds obvious to the average user who is trying to set things up and doesn't want a Microsoft account?

It's all very well to say that there is a way around it, but if it isn't readily obvious to the average user at the point in the setup process where they need to know about it, then it might as well not exist. A work around that only works for MS techs, because it's largely unknown to anyone else, isn't exactly useful.

Just like your earlier comment that if you don't like Win8 you can just install Win7. Technically correct, but largely pointless in practice.

For the average user, how exactly? That may be true for an MS tech who has access to Win7, or a Geekzone denizen who knows about OEM channels. But:
1.  Most new retail machines come pre-installed with Win8
2.  When Win8 came out MS pulled Win7 from retail channels - Dick Smith, JB HiFi, Noel Leeming no longer carry it, and
3.  Unless you pay extra for the pro version, there is no upgrade rights to Win7, so even if you can find it you have to re-buy Windows.

So most average users don't know they can do this. If they do they probably don't know where to find/buy it. And if they do know and can find it, they have to earse the OS they have been forced to buy, pay again for a different version of Windows, and then figure out how to install that.

And, I should add, that it's not just about the start menu. It's about the overweening arrogance of a company that wants to do everything possible to corral people into a way of doing things for its benefit, not theirs. I freely admit that the underlying OS is fine (speed, stability) is fine. But the whole interface mess is a debacle. It would have been very simple to provide a "classic" skin for the OS on release, and even cursory market testing should have shown that a lot of people would prefer this.

Personally, I have two machines on a KVM (a Win7 box and a Vista Box). They will remain in service for some time for a variety of reasons, and my new box will go onto the same KVM. Even if I grew to know and like it (which I won't), I don't want the whole UI paradigm changing every time I push a button.

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  # 1023095 10-Apr-2014 20:21
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freitasm: Windows 8.1 is available from the Store.

Windows 8.1 Update is available from Windows Update.


Couldn't find it in the Store but got it from Windows Update. No dramas and it seems like a nice enhancement.




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