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348 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1371071 20-Aug-2015 19:37
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JimmyH: I'm looking at Win10 at the moment.   My slow and elderly desktop is well overdue for a replacement, which I have been delaying because the Win8 UI was so utterly and irredeemably awful. I late September, when I get back in the country, I will have to decide between getting a Windows box or abandoning MS and making the move to a MAC.

I just haven't had a chance to have a decent play with it yet, although I have had a brief tinker with a WinX box.

So far, what I like:
- It seemed clean, zippy and responsive
- Metro seems able to be pretty much banished
- Good support for lots of RAM, multiple desktops etc.

What I am not that keen on:
- The US still seemed a bit schizophrenic in places
- You still need a third-party add-on to properly restore the start menu to the clean Win7 one I like.
- Removal of media center
- MS's deliberate efforts to make browser choice harder

What I dislike a lot:
- Forced updates (it's *my* machine, and I will decide what I want to update and when, thank you MS).
- Invasive privacy destroying telemetry reporting back to MS, which doesn't seem able to be fully disabled.
- The other snooping (emails etc) that the machine seems to do, and which MS seems to have given itself pretty much carte blanche to abuse as it sees fit (I don't want my emails read, used to target advertising, and shared with your business partners thank you!)


Wow dog, could you BE more paranoid?! No offence but maybe you should re-read your post...it comes across like a missive from the lunatic fringe!

321 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1371129 20-Aug-2015 21:01
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Wade: Agreed, this is what i did, new modem supplied free of charge and problem just disappeared


Spark have agreed to replace the Technicolor modem with a Huawei HG630B.

There is no charge for the modem, but I will have a small courier charge around $10, and am committed to stay with Spark for a further 12 months. (Else will have to pay $150)

All in all, I am happy with the outcome.

Thanks to everyone here with help and suggestions.

 
 
 
 


1687 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1371186 20-Aug-2015 21:27
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I had to briefly use the husband's 8.1 machine today and was astonished how much I disliked it. I've gotten used to 10 that fast. Probably because it feels so similar to 7, which I always liked. We still use 7 for our media PC- might just leave it on 7.

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  # 1371249 20-Aug-2015 23:03
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markl:
JimmyH: I'm looking at Win10 at the moment.   My slow and elderly desktop is well overdue for a replacement, which I have been delaying because the Win8 UI was so utterly and irredeemably awful. I late September, when I get back in the country, I will have to decide between getting a Windows box or abandoning MS and making the move to a MAC.

I just haven't had a chance to have a decent play with it yet, although I have had a brief tinker with a WinX box.

So far, what I like:
- It seemed clean, zippy and responsive
- Metro seems able to be pretty much banished
- Good support for lots of RAM, multiple desktops etc.

What I am not that keen on:
- The US still seemed a bit schizophrenic in places
- You still need a third-party add-on to properly restore the start menu to the clean Win7 one I like.
- Removal of media center
- MS's deliberate efforts to make browser choice harder

What I dislike a lot:
- Forced updates (it's *my* machine, and I will decide what I want to update and when, thank you MS).
- Invasive privacy destroying telemetry reporting back to MS, which doesn't seem able to be fully disabled.
- The other snooping (emails etc) that the machine seems to do, and which MS seems to have given itself pretty much carte blanche to abuse as it sees fit (I don't want my emails read, used to target advertising, and shared with your business partners thank you!)


Wow dog, could you BE more paranoid?! No offence but maybe you should re-read your post...it comes across like a missive from the lunatic fringe!


Strange "dog", I read it and found it pretty reasonable.

Also for the record. Just because you say "no offense" doesn't mean you aren't being intentionally offensive. Suggesting "lunacy" is going to be offensive. 



348 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1371273 21-Aug-2015 01:15
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networkn: I read it and found it pretty reasonable


Hmm...okay then, LOL.

networkn: Also for the record. Just because you say "no offense" doesn't mean you aren't being intentionally offensive. Suggesting "lunacy" is going to be offensive. 




Agreed to a point. Saying "no offence" was intended to indicate that I was about to say something extreme, and that it's not intended as a personal attack, but rather a critique of the way the post came across. I wasn't calling them a lunatic, rather I was pointing out how extreme the viewpoint that they were expressing was. But you're right - just because I say "no offence" doesn't mean they will not be offended, no matter how I meant the post.

On the subject of offence, however, I have to wonder, does it not occur to you people that this software is the product of the effortsof many decent, hard working people, who actually give a crap? Or do you think that because it's produced by a massive corporate, that it was punched out by a bunch of code crunching robots or something?

Did you not think that by throwing around second, or even third hand, allegations about that software that are patently FALSE, that YOU are causing offence to those people?

gzt

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  # 1371279 21-Aug-2015 06:46
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I'm sure JimmyH can link every one of those line items to news and reports on reputable tech websites if he has the time. Imho Microsoft will be assessing some of that info and you will see some small changes particularly in the scenario where users have opted out but some small data is still being transferred.

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  # 1371355 21-Aug-2015 10:25
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hairy1: Yes. No cons.


Resounding No!!

cons:
1 - Automatic updates are mandatory. As the last few updates have been disastrous - that is a bad thing. Examples. month ago had to uninstall office, install updates, reinstall office. Last week Nvidia carded machines had permanent upgrade, roll back, re-upgrade and roll back again ad nauseum -  drivers issue caused by Windows updates.

2 - Advertising forced into the system with more to come on screen savers etc and privacy breaches via cortana in email, word docs, browsing etc. turning on privacy settings doesn't resolve it.

3 - Upgrade process flawed. For example it removes your recovery partition for windows 7 so roll back s fail as you are only left with windows 10 in recovery partition.

4 - Windows ME browser (has anyone noticed the initials of that are the same as the worst ever OS from MS?)   anyway -untested, we have to start the whole bug fixing process again to remove security flaws.

5 - Java script /  apps built into the main Os running system. did we not learn from IE being integrated with the OS? DONT!! OS and browsers and apps should never be integrated for security purposes.

6 - Increased traffic overhead from all the live tiles etc. In large businesses that is a disaster. I watched a Govt network slow to a crawl and fail after the Win2k to WinXP upgrade. The upgrade to Win 8, Win X will only exacerbate that situation.

7 - Apps - Security say remove what you don't use. KIS. Apps / Metro etc break this and they cannot all be removed.

8 - Wont run WinXP compatibility mod.e In fact incompatibilit s with anti virus programs  and a number of other Win7 / Win 8 / Win8.1 systems. Hell its even incompatible with its Win8 version of MS Cloud.   also wont run some types of WinXP VM. There are good reasons to allow legacy software / systems to run.

9 - From a business point of view win 8 / Win 8.1 / Windows 10 apps dont add anything positive to the business. They add security risk, more distraction, one thing running at a time, learning costs, security upgrade costs .Tell me what Win X / Win 8.1 has the win 7 doesn't have for a business? Metro screen doesn't count - its a draw back.

10 - larger vulnerability foot print to third party viruses / exploits. any time a web page, little less the entire OPs, is bringing in advertising from third parties they run the risk of bringing in an exploit from a hacked third party. Classic case of NZ weather site virusing people a few years ago from a hacked advertising stream source.

Am I totally against Win X?   Nope - in general the idea of creating a stable source code base and upgrading it is a good idea. vis a vis apples OSX (and no I am not an apple fan boy).  But the intrusion of advertising, loss fo control loss of choices and inability of people to be able to make their own choices re secuirty, network options, etc - that is a bad move.

Funnily enough Win X has finally forced me to seriously consider a Linux OS> Linux mint / cinnamon. Very impressed. so easy my windows bred wife and kids are using it, runs windows software, can do emulation, is secure and runs very well on old laptops. What's ore it has no inbuilt advertising and offers a large range of choice over its control.

I've used linux for 15 plus years for business / web servers and not once ever considered suggesting a linux desktop to clients. I now am.

PS - While the internet seems to be unrelentingly upbeat about the WinX updates / upgrades, I have been swamped with work from it going wrong including data loss. I have also had to phone MS for support a few times and the 90 plus minuyte wait times, over stressed support workers and a discussion with one of their higher managers telling me it is a nightmare support centre scenario right now lets me know it's not all champane and caviar in Redmond at present.








nunz

 
 
 
 


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  # 1371363 21-Aug-2015 10:39
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markl:
JimmyH: I'm looking at Win10 at the moment.   My slow and elderly desktop is well overdue for a replacement, which I have been delaying because the Win8 UI was so utterly and irredeemably awful. I late September, when I get back in the country, I will have to decide between getting a Windows box or abandoning MS and making the move to a MAC.

I just haven't had a chance to have a decent play with it yet, although I have had a brief tinker with a WinX box.

So far, what I like:
- It seemed clean, zippy and responsive
- Metro seems able to be pretty much banished
- Good support for lots of RAM, multiple desktops etc.

What I am not that keen on:
- The US still seemed a bit schizophrenic in places
- You still need a third-party add-on to properly restore the start menu to the clean Win7 one I like.
- Removal of media center
- MS's deliberate efforts to make browser choice harder

What I dislike a lot:
- Forced updates (it's *my* machine, and I will decide what I want to update and when, thank you MS).
- Invasive privacy destroying telemetry reporting back to MS, which doesn't seem able to be fully disabled.
- The other snooping (emails etc) that the machine seems to do, and which MS seems to have given itself pretty much carte blanche to abuse as it sees fit (I don't want my emails read, used to target advertising, and shared with your business partners thank you!)


Wow dog, could you BE more paranoid?! No offence but maybe you should re-read your post...it comes across like a missive from the lunatic fringe!


And not always Zippy - We have seen HP quad core machines crawl to a halt, 78% plus CPU usage and it seems to be win X core services causing the issue. Rebooted it back to Win7 and got a fast clean experience again.




nunz

1381 posts

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  # 1371365 21-Aug-2015 10:42
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markl:
JimmyH: I'm looking at Win10 at the moment.   My slow and elderly desktop is well overdue for a replacement, which I have been delaying because the Win8 UI was so utterly and irredeemably awful. I late September, when I get back in the country, I will have to decide between getting a Windows box or abandoning MS and making the move to a MAC.

I just haven't had a chance to have a decent play with it yet, although I have had a brief tinker with a WinX box.

So far, what I like:
- It seemed clean, zippy and responsive
- Metro seems able to be pretty much banished
- Good support for lots of RAM, multiple desktops etc.

What I am not that keen on:
- The US still seemed a bit schizophrenic in places
- You still need a third-party add-on to properly restore the start menu to the clean Win7 one I like.
- Removal of media center
- MS's deliberate efforts to make browser choice harder

What I dislike a lot:
- Forced updates (it's *my* machine, and I will decide what I want to update and when, thank you MS).
- Invasive privacy destroying telemetry reporting back to MS, which doesn't seem able to be fully disabled.
- The other snooping (emails etc) that the machine seems to do, and which MS seems to have given itself pretty much carte blanche to abuse as it sees fit (I don't want my emails read, used to target advertising, and shared with your business partners thank you!)


Wow dog, could you BE more paranoid?! No offence but maybe you should re-read your post...it comes across like a missive from the lunatic fringe!


From a business risk point of view this is not paranoia. The fact you have no control over updates, which are not just for OS security and flaws but also drivers and advertising - that's just wrong.

And yes, having my personal info used to advertise to me is wrong. I dont have anything to hide but I am not handing the keys to my house to a stranger so they can rummage through my underware drawer so they can try to sell me crap i don't want.





nunz

2632 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1372086 22-Aug-2015 18:35
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markl:

Wow dog, could you BE more paranoid?! No offence but maybe you should re-read your post...it comes across like a missive from the lunatic fringe!


Ummm..... well you are entitled to your perspective I guess.

But from mine, I don't think I am being unduly paranoid, or indeed very paranoid at all.

The forced updates are well documented. I prefer to look at updates and apply the ones I want, usually a couple of weeks after they have been released. I'm not alone in having to roll-back machines that have been borked by an MS driver update that wasn't appropriate, or having MS generic drivers supplant the manufacturers more recent drivers for components and degrade performance.

As for the advertising and snooping, I have nothing particular to hide, and I don't think that Microsoft are the epitomy of evil either. I just seen no reason to allow them to rummage through my emails, stored documents and search queries for their advantage and to target advertising at me. It's not the end of the world, but it's not something that is very attractive to me either. Let along sharing this information with their business partners as they deem appropriate. Particularly given that my email traffic includes things such as bank statements and medical information. I just value my privacy, and MS's terms of service make it pretty clear that they are doing this.

If fact, the only thing I think I got wrong was mistakenly typing US instead of UI, when I was referring to the user interface.

I guess if you think that makes me a lunatic, well, Meh! (shrugs)



348 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1372146 22-Aug-2015 19:54
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JimmyH:
markl:

Wow dog, could you BE more paranoid?! No offence but maybe you should re-read your post...it comes across like a missive from the lunatic fringe!


Ummm..... well you are entitled to your perspective I guess.

But from mine, I don't think I am being unduly paranoid, or indeed very paranoid at all.

The forced updates are well documented. I prefer to look at updates and apply the ones I want, usually a couple of weeks after they have been released. I'm not alone in having to roll-back machines that have been borked by an MS driver update that wasn't appropriate, or having MS generic drivers supplant the manufacturers more recent drivers for components and degrade performance.

As for the advertising and snooping, I have nothing particular to hide, and I don't think that Microsoft are the epitomy of evil either. I just seen no reason to allow them to rummage through my emails, stored documents and search queries for their advantage and to target advertising at me. It's not the end of the world, but it's not something that is very attractive to me either. Let along sharing this information with their business partners as they deem appropriate. Particularly given that my email traffic includes things such as bank statements and medical information. I just value my privacy, and MS's terms of service make it pretty clear that they are doing this.

If fact, the only thing I think I got wrong was mistakenly typing US instead of UI, when I was referring to the user interface.

I guess if you think that makes me a lunatic, well, Meh! (shrugs)




The thing that is paranoid is that you're assuming that they're wanting to do "evil" with your "personal information". You're WRONG. They don't want to troll through your bank statements and medical information, why would MS want to know the outcome of your most recent visit to the proctologist or whatever? Anyone who thinks that a company that has software with HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of users is going to take the time to look at each and every single one's personal data is just plain out of their mind! Never mind that the manpower required to manage something like that would be at a level that no company on earth could support, what about the data storage requirements? The only word FOR people who think like that is PARANOID. 

I fail to see also why contextually targetted advertising is a bad thing too. You might be interested in tech stuff but not fashion, for example. If 90% of the ads you're served are for fashion items, then you're going to get annoyed, and you're never going to visit those advertisers, so everyone loses. If they can target ads to you that you find relevant, based on activities you (as identified by an anonymous id) perform, then surely that's better for everyone? Again, they are simply NOT going to keep tabs on EVERY SINGLE USER'S intimate details, so it's perfectly safe, and its something that only the paranoid would fear. 

Mad Scientist
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  # 1372152 22-Aug-2015 20:20
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Mr Microsoft may not want to know, but an employee of microsoft might want to know. Hackers definitely love to know all sorts of stuff. Why would I want any of my stuff to be stored by another computer?

Sure yes other entities spy too, which is just as sad.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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Master Geek


  # 1372153 22-Aug-2015 20:20
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I'm not paranoid.

I just do not think that serving up advertising is a necessary ( or wanted ) function of my computer's operating system.

And nor is the collection of data to allow such advertising to be targeted.


418 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1372197 22-Aug-2015 22:15
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markl:
JimmyH:
markl:

Wow dog, could you BE more paranoid?! No offence but maybe you should re-read your post...it comes across like a missive from the lunatic fringe!


Ummm..... well you are entitled to your perspective I guess.

But from mine, I don't think I am being unduly paranoid, or indeed very paranoid at all.

The forced updates are well documented. I prefer to look at updates and apply the ones I want, usually a couple of weeks after they have been released. I'm not alone in having to roll-back machines that have been borked by an MS driver update that wasn't appropriate, or having MS generic drivers supplant the manufacturers more recent drivers for components and degrade performance.

As for the advertising and snooping, I have nothing particular to hide, and I don't think that Microsoft are the epitomy of evil either. I just seen no reason to allow them to rummage through my emails, stored documents and search queries for their advantage and to target advertising at me. It's not the end of the world, but it's not something that is very attractive to me either. Let along sharing this information with their business partners as they deem appropriate. Particularly given that my email traffic includes things such as bank statements and medical information. I just value my privacy, and MS's terms of service make it pretty clear that they are doing this.

If fact, the only thing I think I got wrong was mistakenly typing US instead of UI, when I was referring to the user interface.

I guess if you think that makes me a lunatic, well, Meh! (shrugs)




The thing that is paranoid is that you're assuming that they're wanting to do "evil" with your "personal information". You're WRONG. They don't want to troll through your bank statements and medical information, why would MS want to know the outcome of your most recent visit to the proctologist or whatever? Anyone who thinks that a company that has software with HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of users is going to take the time to look at each and every single one's personal data is just plain out of their mind! Never mind that the manpower required to manage something like that would be at a level that no company on earth could support, what about the data storage requirements? The only word FOR people who think like that is PARANOID. 

I fail to see also why contextually targetted advertising is a bad thing too. You might be interested in tech stuff but not fashion, for example. If 90% of the ads you're served are for fashion items, then you're going to get annoyed, and you're never going to visit those advertisers, so everyone loses. If they can target ads to you that you find relevant, based on activities you (as identified by an anonymous id) perform, then surely that's better for everyone? Again, they are simply NOT going to keep tabs on EVERY SINGLE USER'S intimate details, so it's perfectly safe, and its something that only the paranoid would fear. 


You might be putting this in a little confrontational manner but I tend to agree. These days facebook is gathering your data, google is gathering your data - and far far worse, the US govt is gathering everyones data.

The companies are doing it for targeted advertising, and perhaps the protection of some limited copyrights. I don't have a big issue with that, if on a cortana/bing search I get certain ads, or when I do into the windows store, it makes certain suggestions, thats probably helpful at least some of the time, as I might like the product/service. The ads are going to be there anyway, so why not have then targeted.

Plus when cortana is running, that will work much much better with databasing, as it is supposed to be a learning assistant, as opposed to the others.  

The only thing I found annoying here was the inclusion of two advertising tiles, that I then just deleted. 

Whereas what the US govt might do with the spyware they snuck onto hard drives, or the five eyes program is much more questionable. 

And google, facebook and everyone else is doing this anyway. It's not like microsoft started this trend, they are just following in the path of the economic system that works - free products with paid services, add ones, and targeted advertising. If you want to blame anyone for that thats really consumers who have created that, by treating their data as a free give away, rather than something that can be given, but should be regarded as having value - and expecting something decent in return.

At least with windows your getting a decent service for your data - with facebook, your getting next to nothing, no real upgrades, no ad ons, no support. With the govt, well they are just stealing it, lol. 




Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

gzt

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  # 1372346 23-Aug-2015 10:19
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You are confusing with a free service. Windows 10 Professional is USD$199.

Then you are trying to justify how windows is becoming like facebook? ; ).

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