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  # 1374125 25-Aug-2015 19:02
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JimmyH:
MikeB4:
networkn:
MikeB4: Its rather simple, if one does not like Windows 10 or it does not fit ones needs don't install it, it is not a compulsory update and there are alternatives.


Are there really? (90% of the worlds software runs on Windows). What happens when MS decides it won't provide security updates for older versions?

You are being incredibly disingenuous to try make it out as simple as that.



Fact; it is not compulsory to update to Win 10.
Fact; there are alternatives.

I am NOT being disingenuous saying this.


Actually, you kind of are.

There is a lot of software and games around that people either need or want to use, and that are Windows only. If you get a new PC they pretty much won't sell you Win7 now, and shortly won't sell Win8 either. You are stuck with either getting Win10, or not being able to run a lot of stuff.

Yes, on paper you have a choice. In practice, a lot of the userbase essentially don't.

And, if as some here have said, the snooping features are desirable to them because they want targeted ads and don't care about their privacy, then there is a clear solution. MS should clearly outline the new "features" at install, including what they are and what they entail, and give you a proper choice about whether or not you enable them. Not obscure settings spread over 13 different menus, that don't even meaningfully disable much of the snooping when you have been through them all.


I agree MSFT should openly document these "features"  and detail what they do and how to turn them off if possible so people can make informed decisions.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1374409 26-Aug-2015 09:22
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Lots of misinformation being spread about windows 10 on the internet. People claiming that Windows 10 is spying on you and using your data for nefarious purposes.

Doesn't anyone actually have evidence to back this up, or is it all just paranoid speculation?
 


I found the privacy options in windows 10 pretty straight forward, and they clearly explain what each setting does.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1374414 26-Aug-2015 09:30
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everybody collects your data.

Google / Gmail
Facebook
Apple
Microsoft
online shopping logins/credit card details you provide
the APPS that you use on your mobile phone

everything you use

It's what they do with it, what their terms and conditions say about what they can do with it, and how securely stored is your data




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1374439 26-Aug-2015 09:42
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Michaelfjs: Lots of misinformation being spread about windows 10 on the internet. People claiming that Windows 10 is spying on you and using your data for nefarious purposes.

Doesn't anyone actually have evidence to back this up, or is it all just paranoid speculation?
 
I found the privacy options in windows 10 pretty straight forward, and they clearly explain what each setting does.


I'm not too fussed about the whole thing either. I haven't read all the details, but I get the impression a lot of it has to do with what the licence agreement and terms and conditions say you're agreeing to allow them to do\collect\etc.  If you're clicking "Agree" to agree they can do some of these things, it doesn't really matter if they're actively doing it now, or anyone has evidence that they are - the fact it's written into the T&Cs\licence agreement\whatever would seem to indicate they can and may in the future... 

I don't think there's anything wrong with people questioning this and I can see why some might be uncomfortable with it all.  Personally I'm not, but I can still understand why others might, and I don't think it's a bad thing at all to question what these companies (Microsoft is by no means the only one!) are doing with all this data.

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  # 1374467 26-Aug-2015 09:53
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JimmyH:
MikeB4:


Are there really? (90% of the worlds software runs on Windows). What happens when MS decides it won't provide security updates for older versions?

You are being incredibly disingenuous to try make it out as simple as that.



Fact; it is not compulsory to update to Win 10.
Fact; there are alternatives.

I am NOT being disingenuous saying this.


Actually, you kind of are.

There is a lot of software and games around that people either need or want to use, and that are Windows only. If you get a new PC they pretty much won't sell you Win7 now, and shortly won't sell Win8 either. You are stuck with either getting Win10, or not being able to run a lot of stuff.



Rubbish.
Win7 is still widely available , go to a PC shop, not a toaster shop like Noel Lemming/DSE
We still sell Win7 PC's , most major PC Brands (HP, Lenovo, Toshiba) still offer Win7 PC's and laptops
There is zero need to use Win10 or Win8 . There are alternatives (Win7)

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  # 1374468 26-Aug-2015 09:53
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sidefx: it now, or anyone has evidence that they are - the fact it's written into the T&Cs\licence agreement\whatever would seem to indicate they can and may in the future... 


Does anyone have a link to where it's written into the licence agreement?

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  # 1374491 26-Aug-2015 10:13
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Michaelfjs:
sidefx: it now, or anyone has evidence that they are - the fact it's written into the T&Cs\licence agreement\whatever would seem to indicate they can and may in the future... 


Does anyone have a link to where it's written into the licence agreement?


I believe this is one article people have been pointing to recently with some relevant quotes from the privacy policy (sorry not licence agreement)


http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/23/9191989/windows-privacy-and-you

It's written as a defense of the whole thing, and they're not wrong in their analysis. But reading through some the wording... it seems quite ambiguous in parts. 


Also, playing devil's advocate here, but for those who would say "Ah well, Google\Apple\Facebook\Other large corp already does it" well that's not exactly reassuring.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1374493 26-Aug-2015 10:20
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1101:
JimmyH:
MikeB4:


Are there really? (90% of the worlds software runs on Windows). What happens when MS decides it won't provide security updates for older versions?

You are being incredibly disingenuous to try make it out as simple as that.



Fact; it is not compulsory to update to Win 10.
Fact; there are alternatives.

I am NOT being disingenuous saying this.


Actually, you kind of are.

There is a lot of software and games around that people either need or want to use, and that are Windows only. If you get a new PC they pretty much won't sell you Win7 now, and shortly won't sell Win8 either. You are stuck with either getting Win10, or not being able to run a lot of stuff.



Rubbish.
Win7 is still widely available , go to a PC shop, not a toaster shop like Noel Lemming/DSE
We still sell Win7 PC's , most major PC Brands (HP, Lenovo, Toshiba) still offer Win7 PC's and laptops
There is zero need to use Win10 or Win8 . There are alternatives (Win7)


No, it's not "rubbish". 6 months from now, how many W7 machines do you expect to be able to buy, in 12 months how many W8?

I am ok if they have access to my data for law enforcement reasons (requiring a warrant for access), but given piracy is a legal issue, they should require a warrant to snoop on my data if they have reasonable grounds to suspect me of piracy.

If they want access to my data for their own purposes, then as far as I am concerned that should something I subscribe TO not have taken from me automatically.



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Master Geek


  # 1374507 26-Aug-2015 10:32
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sidefx:
I believe this is one article people have been pointing to recently with some relevant quotes from the privacy policy (sorry not licence agreement)


http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/23/9191989/windows-privacy-and-you

It's written as a defense of the whole thing, and they're not wrong in their analysis. But reading through some the wording... it seems quite ambiguous in parts. 



Thanks for the link.

Personally I see nothing wrong with any of that. Nothing to suggest anything nefarious. It's the kind of privacy agreement I would expect in this modern age of computing. They are pretty transparent explaining the reasons why this data is collected, and it all seams pretty reasonable to me.

I don't understand why people get so paranoid, but frankly I don't care. I'll happily keep using windows 10.



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  # 1374521 26-Aug-2015 11:09
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Michaelfjs:

Thanks for the link.

Personally I see nothing wrong with any of that. Nothing to suggest anything nefarious. It's the kind of privacy agreement I would expect in this modern age of computing. They are pretty transparent explaining the reasons why this data is collected, and it all seams pretty reasonable to me.

I don't understand why people get so paranoid, but frankly I don't care. I'll happily keep using windows 10.



Yup, I'm pretty much the same. We're lucky enough to live in a country that has what I believe are are a reasonably good legal system and laws, and a good extradition process. So I'm perfectly happy using windows 10 for myself and recommending it to my family, friends etc.

It's more when you think "what if" that I can understand why other's might not be so keen on it. Again I'm going to play devil's advocate here but:

What if I didn't live in a country with a reasonable extradition process and some overzealous prosecutor in the US decided I'm a terrible pirate for downloading that one episode of some obscure TV show that I wasn't able to source any other way? After all Microsoft operates in the US and their privacy policy says they will share my personal data "when required by law or to respond to legal process" Could I now be faced with possible extradition to a country which seems to take a much much more heavy handed approach to dealing with "pirates"?

What if I lived in China and might be considered a "dissident" for some of my views. The privacy policy says that Microsoft may share this data "to protect lives" and the Chinese government believes I may be a terrorist, so sharing this data might protect lives right?

While I don't necessarily worry about these things personally, I can understand why others might.


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  # 1375062 27-Aug-2015 10:08
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networkn: [

No, it's not "rubbish". 6 months from now, how many W7 machines do you expect to be able to buy, in 12 months how many W8?



yes it IS rubbish. Just a mindless rant with no effort to check some basic facts.

Have you never heard of downgrade rights , did you not even bother to check MS's statements on availability
Win7 is still available OEM, and as a downgrade right from Win8pro (thats they way its 'sold' by HP, Lenovo etc etc)
Just as Win7 was available for YEARS after 8 came out,  Win8 will be availble for years after Win7 sales cease.

Prop up 1 iota of evidence that I wont be able to buy Win7 or Win8 PC's a year from now.
Hell , I can still buy Win7 OEM from most many sources in NZ, MS are still spitting it out .

There is zero need to install Win10, new Win7 PC's are still widely available (just not in toaster shops) .

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  # 1375349 27-Aug-2015 18:05
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1101:
nunz:

Now the tricky bit - originally the 'advertising' that is not advertising, was a recommended update and could be turned off. Now it is a required update - we have no choice but to suffer windows Advertising on our paid for Windows 7 / Windows 8 / 8.1 machines. Parts of Windows 10 are already in our paid for machines and we are receiving advertising without permission.




My god, no one else has that issue, perhaps your blatant anti MS paranoia has clouded your mind.
Ive disabled the notification on MY home PC, and on other PC's.
- uninstall 1 update
- hide that one update
issue solved , its really that simple .

A notification is not advertising btw. Is a stop sign advertising , are notifications of security patches advertising ?


Maybe you should change your name to TROLL as you seem to make up personal attacks based on no actual evidence.   Are you this rude in real life?

Try turning your updates in Win8.1 to manual (in order to stop BITS, Windows Updates and Windows installer chewing cpu / disk or if you are on 3g etc)  and you will find the only update option you have is Upgrade to Windows 10.  That's not a notification.











nunz

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  # 1375351 27-Aug-2015 18:09
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networkn:
1101:
JimmyH:
MikeB4:


Are there really? (90% of the worlds software runs on Windows). What happens when MS decides it won't provide security updates for older versions?

You are being incredibly disingenuous to try make it out as simple as that.



Fact; it is not compulsory to update to Win 10.
Fact; there are alternatives.

I am NOT being disingenuous saying this.


Actually, you kind of are.

There is a lot of software and games around that people either need or want to use, and that are Windows only. If you get a new PC they pretty much won't sell you Win7 now, and shortly won't sell Win8 either. You are stuck with either getting Win10, or not being able to run a lot of stuff.



Rubbish.
Win7 is still widely available , go to a PC shop, not a toaster shop like Noel Lemming/DSE
We still sell Win7 PC's , most major PC Brands (HP, Lenovo, Toshiba) still offer Win7 PC's and laptops
There is zero need to use Win10 or Win8 . There are alternatives (Win7)


No, it's not "rubbish". 6 months from now, how many W7 machines do you expect to be able to buy, in 12 months how many W8?



Historically Microsoft have only ever let you have two operating system choices  when you buy a new Pc. E.g You could get WinXP / and Vista until around 2010 but when Win7 came out the back grades disappeared - you were forced into either vista or to go straight to Win7 with no option to buy a back grade to Win XP.

I'm amazed we can still get Win7, as i was expecting it to get pulled when 10 came out.   MS really only wants to sell Win10 with a win 8 back grade - which will be a begger  as all the extra traffic Metro apps bring is a PITN.









nunz

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  # 1375352 27-Aug-2015 18:11
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Michaelfjs:
sidefx:
I believe this is one article people have been pointing to recently with some relevant quotes from the privacy policy (sorry not licence agreement)


http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/23/9191989/windows-privacy-and-you

It's written as a defense of the whole thing, and they're not wrong in their analysis. But reading through some the wording... it seems quite ambiguous in parts. 



Thanks for the link.

Personally I see nothing wrong with any of that. Nothing to suggest anything nefarious. It's the kind of privacy agreement I would expect in this modern age of computing. They are pretty transparent explaining the reasons why this data is collected, and it all seams pretty reasonable to me.

I don't understand why people get so paranoid, but frankly I don't care. I'll happily keep using windows 10.




Have you read the Spotify agreement? it includes the ability to take works you create and also to have you waive your rights to object to derogatory treatment.

Section 7.
"here applicable and permitted under applicable law, you also agree to waive any “moral rights” (or the equivalent under applicable law) such as your right to be identified as the author of any User Content, including Feedback, and your right to object to derogatory treatment of such User Content."






nunz

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  # 1375353 27-Aug-2015 18:13
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sidefx:
Michaelfjs:

Thanks for the link.

Personally I see nothing wrong with any of that. Nothing to suggest anything nefarious. It's the kind of privacy agreement I would expect in this modern age of computing. They are pretty transparent explaining the reasons why this data is collected, and it all seams pretty reasonable to me.

I don't understand why people get so paranoid, but frankly I don't care. I'll happily keep using windows 10.



Yup, I'm pretty much the same. We're lucky enough to live in a country that has what I believe are are a reasonably good legal system and laws, and a good extradition process. So I'm perfectly happy using windows 10 for myself and recommending it to my family, friends etc.

It's more when you think "what if" that I can understand why other's might not be so keen on it. Again I'm going to play devil's advocate here but:

What if I didn't live in a country with a reasonable extradition process and some overzealous prosecutor in the US decided I'm a terrible pirate for downloading that one episode of some obscure TV show that I wasn't able to source any other way? After all Microsoft operates in the US and their privacy policy says they will share my personal data "when required by law or to respond to legal process" Could I now be faced with possible extradition to a country which seems to take a much much more heavy handed approach to dealing with "pirates"?

What if I lived in China and might be considered a "dissident" for some of my views. The privacy policy says that Microsoft may share this data "to protect lives" and the Chinese government believes I may be a terrorist, so sharing this data might protect lives right?

While I don't necessarily worry about these things personally, I can understand why others might.



what if my name is Kim dot Com and my govt allowed armed USA FBI agents to run riot through my house nad property illegally, what if I am TuHoi and the Govt locked off my entire community and raided my house scaring the snot out of my kids - because of somethig tohers in the community allegedly might have said, .... glad I dont live in NZ - oh no wait, I do.




nunz

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