Windows 10 Pro - What Price?

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3120 posts

Uber Geek

#2013851 11-May-2018 09:59

Tinkerisk:
The Principle is simple. If one buy a PC With Win10 and uses Linux instead, one can sell The Win10 activation Key. Legally and confirmed by highest EU court. This ist true With Bulk OEM als Well.

recent reference please.

Last I checked , NZ isnt part of the EU.
EU laws dont apply here, and certainly dont apply in the USA , MS's Terms & Conditions do.

and , adding more FUD
https://www.itassetmanagement.net/2016/10/31/secondary-software-2016/

MS only having themselves to blame.
They made this mess by having a quagmire of ever changing, complex licensing rules with too many licensing models.
The people who sell MS products in the shops have no idea and often give completely wrong info on whats being bought & how many
PC's it can be installed on.
So many times Ive had the argument with clients, they say: "Im allowed to install it on 3 PC's, thats what they said at the shop I bought it from" etc etc

And MS will re-activate OEM licenses on new hardware (similar to below).
MS know when OEM's keys are being re-used on differnent hardware. They choose to look the other way I guess.

Tradepub

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Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2013858 11-May-2018 10:10

I used to get given CD Keys from OEM machines that were on a site licence.
Call Microsoft and advised you changed your CPU/MOBO/RAM combo and you have a new HWID and they will unlock the key and let it activate again, Same goes for Office.
I've always obtained these licences with permission and always had success with activation over the phone.
Given plenty of these to friends who I have built PC's for or they have bought a PB System with no OS!
Sorry but I am not doing this for anyone here, Just a tip if you know someone who can facilitate this for you.

Cheers

Tinkerisk

4078 posts

Uber Geek

#2014150 11-May-2018 15:43

NZ isnt part of the EU.

Too bad for you - but the FUG (forum) doesn't make things illegal in the rest of the world. When it is against the FUG, it can and has been edited - no problem at all. But it's very hospitable and tells a lot about mindset to threaten with a ban just because things are different (or should I say 'less profitable'?). It's certainly NOT forbidden to stay into one's shell or to retreat à la brexit.

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GEOMAX

450 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2014163 11-May-2018 16:17

GEOMAX:

caveat emptor....let the buyer beware Is always relevant.

Do your homework before buying.

When I see comments about pirated discs etc I realize how the world is changing. I have not seen a install disc for 10 years! A search in google will find as I said earlier about ebay the world wide trend (including NZ) is resellers selling keys to use from the microsoft download site.

This is the way of the future .

NOTE DO YOUR HOMEWORK

search google and see the $billion fine and MS having to remove bundled software on millions of PCs in Europe and the bun fight goes on.I don't know where or how these keys come from or does anybody else but Caveat Emptor rules.

If in doubt don't.

If you feel happy to go to a PC repair do it.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
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#2014272 11-May-2018 19:12

Tinkerisk:

NZ isnt part of the EU.

Too bad for you - but the FUG (forum) doesn't make things illegal in the rest of the world. When it is against the FUG, it can and has been edited - no problem at all. But it's very hospitable and tells a lot about mindset to threaten with a ban just because things are different (or should I say 'less profitable'?). It's certainly NOT forbidden to stay into one's shell or to retreat à la brexit.

You're extrapolating here. I have removed more than one reply, not only yours. Don't feel threatened or (worse) don't make this about you.

There's no "mindset". The law here is clear about copyright and, like it or not, this company is established in New Zealand.

My technology disclosure

Tinkerisk

4078 posts

Uber Geek

#2014360 11-May-2018 20:42

freitasm:

Tinkerisk:

NZ isnt part of the EU.

Too bad for you - but the FUG (forum) doesn't make things illegal in the rest of the world. When it is against the FUG, it can and has been edited - no problem at all. But it's very hospitable and tells a lot about mindset to threaten with a ban just because things are different (or should I say 'less profitable'?). It's certainly NOT forbidden to stay into one's shell or to retreat à la brexit.

You're extrapolating here. I have removed more than one reply, not only yours. Don't feel threatened or (worse) don't make this about you.

There's no "mindset". The law here is clear about copyright and, like it or not, this company is established in New Zealand.

Maurice,

I respect what you replied without any complain and I always try to remark that I'm not 'operating' from NZ (to prevent misunderstandings). Neither me nor the EU (to be improved, sure) is the centre of the world. The intention of my hints should be more understood as an alternate way or proposal for common problems or challenges we face as geeks. Sometimes I learn, sometimes I can support especially when I was already there, bought the T-shirt, got the cup (... you know).

It's NOT to teach anyone or to rule anything. Take it or leave it - it's just to support regardless of distance or borders when I can do it when I have the experience, the time and when I can establish it with a few lines of sentences. I've no commercial background and don't sell anything. For me it doesn't matter where you are located or what law applies to you - because there is more than that and instead to emphasize the differences, 'we' should focus to the commonalities and treat it in that way (always in mind, that something could be different somewhere or lacking information given by the context of an other culture or the limitations of written communication).

And be warned: I tent to sarcasm I quickly picked up from of my UK colleagues working here in Germany (yes they claimed for EU passports against the Brexit).

Keeping this in mind it should never lead to serious issues especially and finally since you are the BDFL with the ONE ring ... oups, I mean master key ;-)

Andib

1352 posts

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#2014606 12-May-2018 12:43

Coil:

I used to get given CD Keys from OEM machines that were on a site licence.
Call Microsoft and advised you changed your CPU/MOBO/RAM combo and you have a new HWID and they will unlock the key and let it activate again, Same goes for Office.
I've always obtained these licences with permission and always had success with activation over the phone.
Given plenty of these to friends who I have built PC's for or they have bought a PB System with no OS!
Sorry but I am not doing this for anyone here, Just a tip if you know someone who can facilitate this for you.

Cheers

Yeah, This is just as bad as buying keys from ebay. Those keys are OEM licenses which are not transferable (they're only meant to be installed on the hardware they were sold with). Broadly speaking (agreements do vary) the 'site license' is actually a Volume Licenses from Microsoft which still requires each system to have a valid license.

A company giving you that license key would likely be in breach of their volume license agreement.

Tinkerisk

4078 posts

Uber Geek

#2014686 12-May-2018 14:41

From technical standpoint:

1) If Win10 has been an upgrade of a Win7 or Win8 retail version (even when it is veeeeeery old, just recently bought one ;-), you can transfer the Win10 license to an other computer. The Win10 on the old computer has to be removed first and you have to use the former Win7 or 8 licence key to activate Win10.

(In the EU it is legal to RE-USE Win7 or Win8 retail version licenses which already have been installed on computers before, when the old Win version has been removed from the old computer before - therefore you can find plenty of licenses for cheap when the hardware already has been scrapped, i.e. huge companies, etc. As explained, those Win7 or Win8 license keys are sold to activate Win10 - again: in the EU, legally. Same is valid for Windows Server licenses!).

2) If Win10 has been an upgrade of a Win7 or Win8 OEM version, you can't transfer the Win10 because the license is coupled to the computer on which the OEM version first has been installed and activated. You can't even change the motherboard without the need for a new (or other) Win10 license key.

When you start with Win10 from scratch, you need to buy an unused Win10 retail original software key from a trusty seller (and here come the doubtful, suspicious pirate sources into game) which never has been activated on a machine. Once installed and activated this Win10 license can't be transferred to an other computer (or motherboard).

Normally you can rely on that everything is fine when the "Genuine Microsoft Product" seal appears on the Windows system page since it is crosschecked with the Microsoft license servers.

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2014717 12-May-2018 14:58

Andib:

Coil:

I used to get given CD Keys from OEM machines that were on a site licence.
Call Microsoft and advised you changed your CPU/MOBO/RAM combo and you have a new HWID and they will unlock the key and let it activate again, Same goes for Office.
I've always obtained these licences with permission and always had success with activation over the phone.
Given plenty of these to friends who I have built PC's for or they have bought a PB System with no OS!
Sorry but I am not doing this for anyone here, Just a tip if you know someone who can facilitate this for you.

Cheers

Yeah, This is just as bad as buying keys from ebay. Those keys are OEM licenses which are not transferable (they're only meant to be installed on the hardware they were sold with). Broadly speaking (agreements do vary) the 'site license' is actually a Volume Licenses from Microsoft which still requires each system to have a valid license.

A company giving you that license key would likely be in breach of their volume license agreement.

So in the case that these machines came with an OEM licence for windows 10 to then be wiped and install a volume licence for windows 7 is that still the case?
At such sites where I have been given licences before they would also build their own machines and apply a volume licence without an existing licence. Seems contradicting.

Andib

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#2014902 12-May-2018 19:48

Coil:

So in the case that these machines came with an OEM licence for windows 10 to then be wiped and install a volume licence for windows 7 is that still the case?
At such sites where I have been given licences before they would also build their own machines and apply a volume licence without an existing licence. Seems contradicting.

I'm not a MS licensing specialist but in short Yes. You CAN buy new licenses for every PC but I'm yet to find a company do this. Typically there are two ways companies to get a 'site license'

1) Re-image rights - Companies purchase a single license of Windows 10 Pro via their Microsoft Agreement, This gives them the rights to re-image all their workstations using a single volume license key. Each workstation still needs a valid license (as you've only purchased 1 additional license) but instead of managing 1000+ individual license keys they can use a single KMS / MAK key for activation. In regards to imaging with Windows 7, Downgrade rights are included as part of the Windows 8/10 OEM license. Normal re-imaging rights apply (each workstation still needs a valid license).

2) Enterprise - For companies who want Windows 7/10 Enterprise this is provided typically via Software Assurance which provides an 'upgrade' license (you can clean install). Once again each workstation needs a valid license to 'upgrade' to Enterprise.

So unless the company handing out the OEM keys has purchased an additional license for each machine (unlikely as this would mean purchasing a license twice) they're breaching their agreement by handing out the keys / installing the OS on a workstation without a valid license.

Tinkerisk

4078 posts

Uber Geek

#2016587 16-May-2018 01:01

Installed Office 2016 Pro+ full version with an official re-use key. Accepted by MS server and works flawless for it's single digit price. This is the latesst version before their 365 stuff.

GEOMAX

450 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2017578 17-May-2018 12:09

I see global sales of office 2016 is booming in all on line areas. I also noted in Microsoft restructure management announcement march 2018 they aim to double the number of office 365 accounts by 2020.Maybe this is how they will achieve it ? 365 works on 5pcs and google android phones etc ,costs very little more, so why did you not buy the lifetime Office 365 .