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NokiaRocks
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  #58611 23-Jan-2007 14:54
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patdude123: You may want to hold onto that shoe phone - rumours are beginning to appear that Apples also going to charge for boot camp....

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/8838/53/

patdude123

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#58630 23-Jan-2007 17:02
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Well the truth could be starting to come out about this bogus US$2 charge to enable Apples pre-standard 802.11n - check out this quote from Lynn Turner, the former chief accountant from the US Securities and Exchange Comission published on Gizmodo http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/wireless/accountants-say-apples-199-80211n-tax-is-bogus-230538.php

"[generally accepted accounting principles] doesn't require you to charge squat." She adds, "You charge whatever you want. GAAP doesn't even remotely address whether or not you charge for a significant functionality change. GAAP establishes what the proper accounting is, based on what you did or didn't charge for it."

Resorting to blaming obscure accounting laws to justify charging for a download  that should be free as it enables hardware you've already paid for is a pretty low blow in my books. I wonder how long Apple will insist on this bogus charging now that some accounting big guns are calling the practice into question...

 
 
 
 


Fossie
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  #58633 23-Jan-2007 17:16
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They will only charge for it if you want to stay on tiger and use it. They have already said it will be built into Leopard.....(I hope they don't turn around and charge us..)

patdude123

51 posts

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#58636 23-Jan-2007 17:36
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Yes you get a pre-ratification implementation of 802.11n - I wonder if they'll charge you for the final ITU agreed 802.11n update??? Its really the thin end of the wedge if you ask me...


CrispinMullins
128 posts

Master Geek


  #58653 23-Jan-2007 20:35

US$2.00 is NZ$2.86 by the current exchange rate. That is what, a pie and a coke from the Shell station? Half a pint of Export Gold? Certainly less than a Short Black. 5 cigarettes. And about 1/30th of my monthly internet bill.

In fact, if I had been working instead of composing this reply, the billable time would have been more than NZ$2.86...

Warmest regards
C. Mullins



alasta
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  #58655 23-Jan-2007 20:39
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freitasm: You see, I understand they are separate products, but as far as naming goes they are just point releases. Why don't they make it clear? Nope, Apple is known for hiding things... Too well.

New releases of OS X are more commonly referred to by Apple as Panther, Tiger, Leopard, etc., so it is very clear that these are new releases and not just interim updates. 

freitasm
BDFL - Memuneh
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  #58657 23-Jan-2007 20:45
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CrispinMullins: US$2.00 is NZ$2.86 by the current exchange rate. That is what, a pie and a coke from the Shell station? Half a pint of Export Gold? Certainly less than a Short Black. 5 cigarettes. And about 1/30th of my monthly internet bill.

In fact, if I had been working instead of composing this reply, the billable time would have been more than NZ$2.86...


It is not the amount. It's Apple coming with a story that they have to charge for this because of accountancy practices. Yeah, right...





 

 

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CrispinMullins
128 posts

Master Geek


  #58658 23-Jan-2007 20:51

freitasm: You see, I understand they are separate products, but as far as naming goes they are just point releases. Why don't they make it clear? Nope, Apple is known for hiding things... Too well.


Oh come on, Mauricio -- you and I might be interested in a given product because its release number is one digit higher than what we have been using, but the average person is not. They have to be really sold on the product in order to bother with it, even if it is a free download (just look at the number of people still using Internet Explorer 5.5).

And in line with such argumentation, Apple has actively marketed its new releases with full descriptions of the new features. Take a look at the list of new features that Apple put together for Tiger.

Warmest regards
C.Mullins

patdude123

51 posts

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#58674 23-Jan-2007 22:39
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The really important point here is that one of the top accountants in the USA has said Apples accounting law excuse is a complete load of bollocks. Sure the cost might be NZ$2.85, but thats so not the point is it. The real issue here is that Apple are ripping people off and because its Apple doing it they're getting away with it. If Microsoft or any other company pulled this stunt, there'd be hell to pay. I thought Apple were supposed to be the good guys???

cokemaster
Nate wants an iphone
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#58677 23-Jan-2007 22:43
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patdude123: I thought Apple were supposed to be the good guys???
Companies are inheritably greedy in the sense that they are supposed to as much money as possible... there are no 'good guys or bad guys'. 


(Well there might but the good guys are out of business)




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CrispinMullins
128 posts

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  #58678 23-Jan-2007 22:56

patdude123: The real issue here is that Apple are ripping people off and because its Apple doing it they're getting away with it. If Microsoft or any other company pulled this stunt, there'd be hell to pay.


I find it difficult to believe that it was a stunt -- there must have been some basis to it for Apple to have bothered. If it turns out they are not required to charge, you watch them back down and release it for free.

Even so, a US$2 charge for an improvement to the way that my hardware performs is hardly a rip-off. NZ$899.00 for a retail copy of XP Professional, on the other hand, is a rip-off.

Warmest regards
C.Mullins

CrispinMullins
128 posts

Master Geek


  #58679 23-Jan-2007 22:59

cokemaster: Companies are inherently greedy in the sense that they are supposed to as much money as possible.


There isn´t really a "supposed to" -- companies *are* still free to make only as much profit as they require to continue, and there is a small, but growing trend towards practices that cannot be considered evil, such as those employed by Google.

Warmest regards
C.Mullins

cokemaster
Nate wants an iphone
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#58680 23-Jan-2007 23:07
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At the risk of going offtopic, the company named in the previous posts have indulged in questionable practices over in China. 
A cost of doing business one may argue, however when comparing the lengths some companies (particularly the major IT companies like MS, Google, Yahoo, Cisco etc)  are willing to go to - it seems (to me at least) moral highgrounds are often forgotten in the chase of the dollar. 

Going back on topic.
In regard to the software upgrade, it is my personal opinion that it should probably be free if customers are buying the hardware required for its operation. As for other things like point upgrades - my opinion differs from what has been stated. ;) 




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patdude123

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#58699 24-Jan-2007 09:05
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 Even so, a US$2 charge for an improvement to the way that my hardware performs is hardly a rip-off. NZ$899.00 for a retail copy of XP Professional, on the other hand, is a rip-off.


Hang on a second - It doesnt matter how you look at it paying for functionality twice (e.g. once in the purchase price of the hardware and the second time by being charged for downloading a patch) is a rip-off, even if it does improve the performance of your hardware. More worryingly, it sets an ugly precident. If other vendors follow Apples example, we'll end up paying for each incremental firmware patch for devices we've already purchased.

Comparing an (admitedly overpriced) full OS release with a tiny functionality upgrade (that should've been made available for free) is not only comparing apples with oranges ('scuese the fruity pun!) but its a pointless comparision.

No matter how you look at it, the whole deal stinks. The 802.11n download is a patch to enable hardware that loyal Apple users have already paid for. Numerous very senior accounting experts in the USA have confirmed that the accounting law excuses used by Apple are bogus and yet there is no sign that Apple will make the download available for free. If Apple fan boys are prepared to be taken advantage of by Steve who obviously needs to finance yet another black turtleneck, let them go for it.

lduncan
189 posts

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#58724 24-Jan-2007 14:00
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Wow, someones really got a chip on their shoulder.

patdude123:
Hang on a second - It doesnt matter how you look at it paying for functionality twice (e.g. once in the purchase price of the hardware and the second time by being charged for downloading a patch) is a rip-off, even if it does improve the performance of your hardware. More worryingly, it sets an ugly precident. If other vendors follow Apples example, we'll end up paying for each incremental firmware patch for devices we've already purchased.

What have Apple actually done here? They've sold a laptop, and advertised as having 802.11b/g capabilities. Then they've come out a few months later, and said that the laptop hardware can actually support 802.11n, and that they will release software to enable this. They've then said, that due to acounting reasons, they are required to charge a nominal fee for this added feature. Whether their legal nitty gritty of their reasoning is accurate or not, I can see why they are erring on the side of caution, as they are already under SEC investigation for accounting irregularities. 

I think you've completely overreacted. Apple have never charged for firmware updates, security patches, or incremental updates, and still don't.

Also the comments about Apple charging for point updates is rediculous. Just because Apple doesn't follow a versioning system which you are familliar with they shouldn't charge for operating systems upgrades? 

Apple have used this versioning scheme since the 70's. Before most software companies even existed. Maybe they're not aware of the rules for versioning their software, and how it should relate to the significance of new features.
 

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