Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


11701 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3787

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

Topic # 193611 17-Mar-2016 09:20
Send private message

I could not decide exactly where this question belongs so apologies if it isn't here! Please move if appropriate. 

 

I can run Windows on a Mac using Basecamp and boot to either. 

 

Why then is the reverse not the case? Why is there no Basecamp equivalent allowing me to run El Capitan on a Windows machine?






View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
894 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 582

Trusted

  Reply # 1514857 17-Mar-2016 09:23
2 people support this post
Send private message

Because Apples TOS state you can only run OSX on Apple hardware.

 

That said, You *CAN* run OSX on a standard PC build using hackintosh. 


4467 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1964

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1514858 17-Mar-2016 09:24
Send private message

Because Apple only want you to run OSX on Apple hardware. As a corollary, that also means that OSX only ships with drivers for hardware devices shipped in genuine Apple hardware. That means that virtual hardware (emulating non-Apple-shipped devices) or passthrough to non-Apple-hardware requires you to run unsigned drivers and so on.





iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


133 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 1514860 17-Mar-2016 09:27
One person supports this post
Send private message

In short: Because Apple.

 

Quote from somewhere on the internet with no source or proof from 2013:

 

 

 

Oddly enough? Apple systems check for a specific chip and refuse to run or install without it. This is called the system management controller, and in effect is a glorified fan controller amongst other things. Practically speaking, this is the reason, outside of some other specific things that might be different – such as video card firmware for video cards and OS X specific drivers for various things (sound cards come to mind) that you can’t ‘just’ boot a vanilla copy of OS X right on your beige box pc. Of course, this isn’t that hard to get around, which is why your average OS X hosted VM host can run OS X VMs, and there are Hackintosh distros floating around.

 

Most Hackintosh install methods these days use variations of boot132, a bootloader that was provided when Apple was transitioning from PPC to Intel with some modifications. The original bootloader was open source, and built with some changes for Darwin. As an aside, there have been some attempts to repackage Darwin as an open source OS.

 

Apple supports a limited range of hardware you know will work. Otherwise, you’re going to have to scrounge up tested hardware or hack hardware into working. This is what makes running OS X on commodity hardware difficult. The SMC is relatively trivial to get around. Getting your unsupported sound chip (nothing like having your mic stuck at maximum volume on a laptop to ruin your day), video adaptor, and other hardware is the tricky part. If you have an AMD processor, for example, the stock kernel will take one look at it and panic like a mouse ran up its pants. In many cases, the solution ends up being building a new kernel, with patches off Darwin source (which is FOSS) and using that.

 

In short, the big problem isn’t the magic chip, it is OS X needing to play nice with the entire system.

 

 


3165 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 890

Trusted

  Reply # 1514864 17-Mar-2016 09:34
4 people support this post
Send private message

Because apple is a hardware company, whereas microsoft is a software and services company. Microsoft doesn't care what you run their software on, they still get the money. Apple cares very much what you run their software on.  This is from 2013, but you get the idea:

 

 

 

 

from here:

 

 

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-google-microsoft-where-does-the-money-come-from/ 


Mad Scientist
18700 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2381

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1514866 17-Mar-2016 09:37
One person supports this post
Send private message

Because, Apple.




11701 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3787

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1514875 17-Mar-2016 09:47
Send private message

Yet Apple do not charge a cent for OSX and only frustrate people already using it on their Macs elsewhere in all likelihood by taking this attitude.

 

It seems really odd that they are happy to allow Windows to run on their machines yet not so to do it the other way round. They go as far as to make Windows versions of iCloud, iTunes etc.

 

I see that they essentially want to ensure we only buy Apple hardware - something that I am usually happy to do. However (in my case) the Surface Pro 4 is a better machine for my mobile computing requirement than any Apple hardware currently available. It would be nice to simply be able to run OSX on it or Windows.

 

Hackintosh always seems to be slightly more complicated to execute than I am comfortable with! undecided






3243 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1765

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1514876 17-Mar-2016 09:54
4 people support this post
Send private message

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?





Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

 

Thinking about signing up to BigPipe? Get $20 credit with my referral link.




11701 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3787

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1514881 17-Mar-2016 09:57
Send private message

Lias:

 

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

 

 

Because, at least until very recently, non-apple products had the design DNA of a black plastic box and ran the world's worst OS.....






1689 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 364

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1514882 17-Mar-2016 10:00
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

Yet Apple do not charge a cent for OSX and only frustrate people already using it on their Macs elsewhere in all likelihood by taking this attitude.

 

It seems really odd that they are happy to allow Windows to run on their machines yet not so to do it the other way round. They go as far as to make Windows versions of iCloud, iTunes etc.

 

I see that they essentially want to ensure we only buy Apple hardware - something that I am usually happy to do. However (in my case) the Surface Pro 4 is a better machine for my mobile computing requirement than any Apple hardware currently available. It would be nice to simply be able to run OSX on it or Windows.

 

Hackintosh always seems to be slightly more complicated to execute than I am comfortable with! undecided

 

 

 

 

But that's the problem; windows was tremendous bloatware because of the need for drivers to support every piece of sh*t hardware ever made, that people _could_ try to use. That it worked at all and so well was testament to the human effort expended, and even then their method was not efficient.

 

 

 

Apple picks and chooses the hardware and says 'this or nothing'. I was looking at hackintosh yesterday, and even they have limited the hardware range down to nearly nothing





________

 

AK

 

 

 

Click to see full size


133 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 1514883 17-Mar-2016 10:01
2 people support this post
Send private message

Lias:

 

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

 

 

Because it's a free-ish world and people can make whatever choice they wish to make?

 

Before this turns into a Windows vs OSX, it's basically what we all wrote above; Microsoft is a (mainly) software company, Apple is not. It's annoying that there's no "one-click" way to dual-boot both, but the Hackintosh guides for El Capitan isn't that bad from what I remember.


745 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 178


  Reply # 1514889 17-Mar-2016 10:11
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

Yet Apple do not charge a cent for OSX and only frustrate people already using it on their Macs elsewhere in all likelihood by taking this attitude.

 

It seems really odd that they are happy to allow Windows to run on their machines yet not so to do it the other way round. They go as far as to make Windows versions of iCloud, iTunes etc.

 

I see that they essentially want to ensure we only buy Apple hardware - something that I am usually happy to do. However (in my case) the Surface Pro 4 is a better machine for my mobile computing requirement than any Apple hardware currently available. It would be nice to simply be able to run OSX on it or Windows.

 

Hackintosh always seems to be slightly more complicated to execute than I am comfortable with! undecided

 

 

 

 

Even is you could run OSX on the surface you would be losing the key thing that makes it great, the touch screen.

 

 

 

OSX doesn't support touch screens and won't until apple invents touch screens on a laptop wink


12690 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5979

Trusted

  Reply # 1514908 17-Mar-2016 10:33
Send private message

Lias:

 

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

 

 

 

 

For the same reason they buy  non Apple products..... because they want to and they are free to do so.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


12690 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5979

Trusted

  Reply # 1514910 17-Mar-2016 10:39
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

I could not decide exactly where this question belongs so apologies if it isn't here! Please move if appropriate. 

 

I can run Windows on a Mac using Basecamp and boot to either. 

 

Why then is the reverse not the case? Why is there no Basecamp equivalent allowing me to run El Capitan on a Windows machine?

 

 

 

 

Using Bootcamp and others like VMware on a Mac to run Windows is relatively easy and the user experience is OK, just that OK. It is possible to run OSX on non Apple hardware but I will honour the FUG and not

 

go into that, however I have experienced this in test environments and the results are patchy and the user experience horrible.

 

It's horses for courses, want OSX buy Apple products and enjoy the experience, want Windows buy non Apple products and enjoy the experience.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


170 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37


  Reply # 1514926 17-Mar-2016 10:52
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

Lias:

 

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

 

 

Because, at least until very recently, non-apple products had the design DNA of a black plastic box and ran the world's worst OS.....

 

 

 

 

Where did you find a non-Apple PC that runs OSX?


1396 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 366


  Reply # 1514929 17-Mar-2016 10:57
Send private message

You actually can run OSX on "Windows Hardware" (certain x86 compatible hardware), but its in breach of the OS X software T&C's, is unsupported, and its a bit of a hack.

 

Meaning you will have to mess about for hours in the best of circumstances, and make sure you have hardware that is compatible.

 

Have a look at this:Building a (sub-$1000) Hackintosh that meets the Oculus Rift hardware requirements – Part II


 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Intel introduces new NUC kits and NUC mini PCs
Posted 16-Aug-2018 11:03


The Warehouse leaps into the AI future with Google
Posted 15-Aug-2018 17:56


Targus set sights on enterprise and consumer growth in New Zealand
Posted 13-Aug-2018 13:47


Huawei to distribute nova 3i in New Zealand
Posted 9-Aug-2018 16:23


Home robot Vector to be available in New Zealand stores
Posted 9-Aug-2018 14:47


Panasonic announces new 2018 OLED TV line up
Posted 7-Aug-2018 16:38


Kordia completes first live 4K TV broadcast
Posted 1-Aug-2018 13:00


Schools get safer and smarter internet with Managed Network Upgrade
Posted 30-Jul-2018 20:01


DNC wants a safer .nz in the coming year
Posted 26-Jul-2018 16:08


Auldhouse becomes an AWS Authorised Training Delivery Partner in New Zealand
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:55


Rakuten Kobo launches Kobo Clara HD entry level reader
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:44


Kiwi team reaches semi-finals at the Microsoft Imagine Cup
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:38


KidsCan App to Help Kiwi Children in Need
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:32


FUJIFILM announces new high-performance lenses
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:57


New FUJIFILM XF10 introduces square mode for Instagram sharing
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:44



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.