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352 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 625000 14-May-2012 17:43
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NonprayingMantis: what would you say was a reasonable amount?  $1/episode? $5/episode? $20/episode?  something else?

somewhere between $1 and $5 per episode here.

1168 posts

Uber Geek


  # 625007 14-May-2012 17:55
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@NonprayingMantis

Shouldn't the question be: 

As Game Of Thrones is the most pirated show of the year, is there a business case for a third season? 

The answer may well be; No, there isn't. 

or better yet; Is there a traditional business case? And if there isn't what are the alternatives? 

Should the content industry be going to KickStarter to fund GOT S3? Should they be selling an App? Should they be selling GOT ring-tone, screen savers, ecards? Should there be a subscription based MMOG? Should they be pre-selling high value, high margin box sets or other merchandise signed by the cast?

I would say the problem is that the content industry hasn't actually asked the second question. 

The Sky, SoHo, business model is bundling a few premium services you want with a lot of stuff you don't and tell you that's price. The days of this working are numbered for content like GOT isn't dependent on live broadcast like sport. 

Basically they can make some money doing things differently or loose a lot of money doing the same things they have always done. Just ask the next music exec how things have been going for the last ten years. 
 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

 
 
 
 


99 posts

Master Geek


  # 625025 14-May-2012 18:43
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crackrdbycracku: @NonprayingMantis

Shouldn't the question be: 

As Game Of Thrones is the most pirated show of the year, is there a business case for a third season? 

The answer may well be; No, there isn't. 

or better yet; Is there a traditional business case? And if there isn't what are the alternatives? 

Should the content industry be going to KickStarter to fund GOT S3? Should they be selling an App? Should they be selling GOT ring-tone, screen savers, ecards? Should there be a subscription based MMOG? Should they be pre-selling high value, high margin box sets or other merchandise signed by the cast?

I would say the problem is that the content industry hasn't actually asked the second question. 

The Sky, SoHo, business model is bundling a few premium services you want with a lot of stuff you don't and tell you that's price. The days of this working are numbered for content like GOT isn't dependent on live broadcast like sport. 

Basically they can make some money doing things differently or loose a lot of money doing the same things they have always done. Just ask the next music exec how things have been going for the last ten years. 
 


Just thought I'd throw it out there that Game of Thrones has already been renewed for season 3.

Also, just because it is highly pirated doesn't mean it isn't highly watched on HBO, I believe the amount of viewers in the US has doubled in season 2 compared to season 1.

DS9

294 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 625063 14-May-2012 19:25
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crackrdbycracku: @NonprayingMantis

Shouldn't the question be: 

As Game Of Thrones is the most pirated show of the year, is there a business case for a third season? 

The answer may well be; No, there isn't. 

or better yet; Is there a traditional business case? And if there isn't what are the alternatives? 

Should the content industry be going to KickStarter to fund GOT S3? Should they be selling an App? Should they be selling GOT ring-tone, screen savers, ecards? Should there be a subscription based MMOG? Should they be pre-selling high value, high margin box sets or other merchandise signed by the cast?

I would say the problem is that the content industry hasn't actually asked the second question. 

The Sky, SoHo, business model is bundling a few premium services you want with a lot of stuff you don't and tell you that's price. The days of this working are numbered for content like GOT isn't dependent on live broadcast like sport. 

Basically they can make some money doing things differently or loose a lot of money doing the same things they have always done. Just ask the next music exec how things have been going for the last ten years. 
 


Remember HBO is primarily a movie channel that produces its own stuff, GoT is a draw card to get subscribers to the network: HBO East/West and HBO2. Starz (Spartacus) and Showtime (Dexter, Weeds & Californication) are the same.

Think of it more like Nosh selling Milk as a loss leader to get you through the door.






I aim to misbehave.


234 posts

Master Geek


  # 625078 14-May-2012 20:05
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crackrdbycracku:
expression:?

TV Blogger Chris Philpott also wrote a pretty good piece on pay tv with a NZ perspective: http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/blogs/on-the-box/6747696/Counting-the-cost-of-pay-TV



He converted the US costs to NZ$ therefore he isn't comparing apples and apples. Content is cheaper in the US, simple as that.?

One way to look at it is that Sky have practices I disagree with, monopoly deals limiting QuickFlix. I do things Sky disagrees with, downloading content.?

Why should I hold myself to a higher standard than Sky does??


Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'll admit you are right about comparing apples, however the idea is still correct. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you should be allowed to obtain it illegally.

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  # 625163 14-May-2012 22:51
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Anyone who watched the Ep7 mind PM'ing me to tell me what happened at the very very end?

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  # 625171 14-May-2012 23:10
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rvangelder:
NonprayingMantis: what would you say was a reasonable amount?  $1/episode? $5/episode? $20/episode?  something else?

somewhere between $1 and $5 per episode here.


Yeah between $1-5 per episode, given they are 60min and a 2-3hr movie at a cinema is $11-20 (and still profitable).

 
 
 
 


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  # 625175 14-May-2012 23:15
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DS9: 

Remember HBO is primarily a movie channel that produces its own stuff, GoT is a draw card to get subscribers to the network: HBO East/West and HBO2. Starz (Spartacus) and Showtime (Dexter, Weeds & Californication) are the same.

Think of it more like Nosh selling Milk as a loss leader to get you through the door.



That analogy doesn't work in the slightest: A supermarket doesn't force you to buy $100+ worth of stuff (because that's the only option they sell) a month when you only wanted 3x $1-5 items.

gjm

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Ultimate Geek


  # 625232 15-May-2012 08:06
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networkn: Anyone who watched the Ep7 mind PM'ing me to tell me what happened at the very very end?


Done.




[Amstrad CPC 6128: 128k Memory: 3 inch floppy drive: Colour Screen]

DS9

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  # 625233 15-May-2012 08:07
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Ragnor:
DS9: 

Remember HBO is primarily a movie channel that produces its own stuff, GoT is a draw card to get subscribers to the network: HBO East/West and HBO2. Starz (Spartacus) and Showtime (Dexter, Weeds & Californication) are the same.

Think of it more like Nosh selling Milk as a loss leader to get you through the door.



That analogy doesn't work in the slightest: A supermarket doesn't force you to buy $100+ worth of stuff (because that's the only option they sell) a month when you only wanted 3x $1-5 items.


OK not the best but HBO doesn't either. HBO is US$15.99 + tax on DirectTV but you still have to pay at least US24.99 + tax to even get HBO . Now if you are talking about season passes then complain to iTunes (TV shows) or Hulu for not launching here. but I stand by my draw card statement, HBO wants US. subscibers to buy its networks so they use GoT and 6 Feet Under before that to do it.




I aim to misbehave.


1168 posts

Uber Geek


  # 625471 15-May-2012 14:22
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The first point is bundling is on the way out. 

The number of people willing to sign up for a service which they feel makes them pay for a lot of stuff they don't want is reducing day by day.

The ability to say: Well, if you don't pay the price then you don't watch Game of Thrones, is also reducing day by day. Basically, the biggest barrier to piracy is that people don't want to do it. 

When was the last time somebody you know bought a CD because they really liked one song and this was the only way to get it?

The second point is each time someone downloads GoT doesn't represent a lost subscription. But it probably does represent a lost opportunity to make some money from those people. 

According to Stuff (yeah, I know) GoT S2 has been downloaded 25 million times. So, if all those people were paying one dollar per episode (10 episodes in the season?) that would be $250 million. 

Anybody else seeing a missed opportunity here? 





Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

6434 posts

Uber Geek


  # 625489 15-May-2012 14:45
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rvangelder:
NonprayingMantis: what would you say was a reasonable amount?  $1/episode? $5/episode? $20/episode?  something else?

somewhere between $1 and $5 per episode here.

well that won't work


charging $1-5 per episode would never ever return the same profit as Time Wrner (who own HBO) make on selling the cable subscriptions that are currently required.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2010/01/25/100125ta_talk_surowiecki


A good example I read of why bundling works and selling individual episodes went something like this;

 

Consider that you have a market with 2 TV shows( an Action show and a Gardening show) that both cost $9 to make

And in that market you have 2 people, 1 who likes action, and 1 who likes gardening.

 

The first person is willing to pay $7 for the action show, but only $4 for the gardening show (he prefers action)

The second person is willing to pay $7 for gardening, but only $4 for action. (He prefers gardening.)

 

What pricing model should the cable companies adopt?

 

If they charge $10 per show to cover their costs, then nobody buys anything. (since the most either one values a show at is $7)

If they charge $7 then the action guy buys the action show, but not the gardening, and the gardening guy buys the gardening show, but not the action.

Revenue per show is only $7 but costs were $10.  So that won’t work.

Likewise if they charge $4 per show then both people will buy both shows, but total revenue per show is only $8

 

The solution:  bundle the two shows together and charge $10. Each person values the bundle at $11 so will purchase at $10. Both people are happy with their purchase, and the company that made the shows also gets a profit.

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Uber Geek


  # 625491 15-May-2012 14:48
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crackrdbycracku: The first point is bundling is on the way out. 

The number of people willing to sign up for a service which they feel makes them pay for a lot of stuff they don't want is reducing day by day.

The ability to say: Well, if you don't pay the price then you don't watch Game of Thrones, is also reducing day by day. Basically, the biggest barrier to piracy is that people don't want to do it. 

When was the last time somebody you know bought a CD because they really liked one song and this was the only way to get it?

The second point is each time someone downloads GoT doesn't represent a lost subscription. But it probably does represent a lost opportunity to make some money from those people. 

According to Stuff (yeah, I know) GoT S2 has been downloaded 25 million times. So, if all those people were paying one dollar per episode (10 episodes in the season?) that would be $250 million. 

Anybody else seeing a missed opportunity here? 



the part you miss is that if they sold it for $1/episode, then the revenue they curently get from basic cable subscriptions and HBO subsciptions woudl drastically decrease since people would opt for that instead of paying their subscriptions.

what would you prefer (assuming all costs etc were the same):

25 million sales of $1 each?
or 25 million sales of $15 each EVERY MONTH?

(HBO has 28m customers, all paying $15 each per month)
and that is before you get into the impact to Tima warner on it's cable subscriptions which are around $40. If people could get HBO without that, then those sales would plummet too.


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Uber Geek


  # 625505 15-May-2012 15:01
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Hasn't the point been made that we live in a world where you can't enforce bundles anymore? 

What if both of these people ask: "Why are we paying 10 for a bundle when we only want to watch one show?" 

God forbid they both ask: "Why are we paying at all when we can just torrent it?"

Bundling requires control, the internet has meant this has been lost. 

Yes, we know free rider behaviour gets to the point where nobody is paying and the whole system collapses. But most individuals, 25 million of them with regard to GoT, don't think like that.

We want solutions and we will pay for them.

NetFlix made a pile of cash because they innovated, first by posting people DVDs and then by offering a streaming service. They answered the question: What would be easier than driving to the vid store? 

Block Buster went out of business because they didn't change.

Apple created a digital download market on iTunes, record stores continue to close. 

Bundled video content services like Sky are somehow different from this? I doubt it. 

Adapt or die, don't whine. 

@NonprayingMantis

250 million sales of $1 each?
or 25 million sales of $20 each?

Yes, but that isn't the choice is it? 






Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

6434 posts

Uber Geek


  # 625508 15-May-2012 15:03
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crackrdbycracku: Hasn't the point been made that we live in a world where you can't enforce bundles anymore? 

What if both of these people ask: "Why are we paying 10 for a bundle when we only want to watch one show?" 

God forbid they both ask: "Why are we paying at all when we can just torrent it?"

Bundling requires control, the internet has meant this has been lost. 

Yes, we know free rider behaviour gets to the point where nobody is paying and the whole system collapses. But most individuals, 25 million of them with regard to GoT, don't think like that.

We want solutions and we will pay for them.

NetFlix made a pile of cash because they innovated, first by posting people DVDs and then by offering a streaming service. They answered the question: What would be easier than driving to the vid store? 

Block Buster went out of business because they didn't change.

Apple created a digital download market on iTunes, record stores continue to close. 

Bundled video content services like Sky are somehow different from this? I doubt it. 

Adapt or die, don't whine. 

  




and yet... Netflix DOESN"T sell movies or TV on a per episode basis.  They sell it as a BUNDLE  Pay $8 per month watch as much as you like.

they don't have special individual subscriptions for 'horror' 'tv' sci-fi' etc etc.  No, they bundle it all together. 

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