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  # 653876 11-Jul-2012 09:43
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Oh and low powered hair dryers should be banned, useless dangerous things.  You only have one option on them when you get in trouble and that is to drop anchor and hope you stop, with something with more power you get the option of accelerating to get out of the trouble spot.

Plus scooters encourage people not to wear the proper clothes "cause they're not very fast how bad could I get hurt ?" :-(

Hands up who has watched the nurses scrub gravel out of down to the bone wounds with a nylon brush ?  Not me and I don;t intend to see it cause I'll wear proper gear every trip!

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  # 653884 11-Jul-2012 10:05
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mjb:
tdgeek: If the lights are red and will stay red, I will go up the inside to the head of the queue. Allows me to get away sooner, frees up one space in the lane, I keep away from the cars. Simple manners

[snip quotes]

Oh ok, i thought it meant he was putting me in the bad bin! As regards my last sentence.


Conversely, I do put you in the bad bin.... I've never seen your reasoning before, and it makes sense to me now, but in the past nothing makes my blood boil more than the motorcyclists that sneak up the queue, effectively jumping it.

To me, a queue is a queue. I was there first, why should you jump in front of me and potentially stop me being able to cross an intersection/make a turn? Sure, it's rare, but that's my point of view as a car driver. Granted, I do see your point of view now, and it does lessen my angst ;)

Disclaimer: also a cyclist, and the bad cyclists (dangerous, riding without helmets, not looking, blocking traffic, etc) drive me mad too.


I will clarify.

This is filtering which is legal. It does not affect any cars ahead of me as I'm not jumping in the queue. Say you are ahead of me. I move up the inside of the cars, and stay left once I am at the front, about a meter ahead. Light goes green, I am gone. No car has been blocked or lost a place, they progress normally. The cars behind me do gain a place, I have effectively reduced the queue.

 
 
 
 


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  # 653892 11-Jul-2012 10:19
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mjb:.... I've never seen your reasoning before, and it makes sense to me now, but in the past nothing makes my blood boil more than the motorcyclists that sneak up the queue, effectively jumping it.

To me, a queue is a queue. I was there first, why should you jump in front of me and potentially stop me being able to cross an intersection/make a turn? Sure, it's rare, but that's my point of view as a car driver. Granted, I do see your point of view now, and it does lessen my angst ;)


You may feel even better still about it if you see it as there being two queues - a car queue and a m'bike queue Wink.

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  # 653908 11-Jul-2012 10:57
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joker97:
networkn:
tdgeek:
jonherries:
tdgeek: I agree, some blike riders are bad. I have a nice new car, but I commute to work on a motorbike. I'm on 2 wheels so I need to drive safe. I thus ride in the lane like a car. Riders going up the line between lanes is risky in moving traffic. Even at a stop light, they will no doubt clip the odd wing mirror. Be considerate

If the lights are red and will stay red, I will go up the inside to the head of the queue. Allows me to get away sooner, frees up one space in the lane, I keep away from the cars. Simple manners



This!


What is your point?


He is agreeing with the quoted text. 



this!


Yes this!

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  # 653979 11-Jul-2012 13:18
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John2010:
sleemanj: A few facts if I may...
 


+1. Fantastic post.

Will just add, for those that get road ragey, that when a 'bike is filtering up on the left at an intersection the other vehicles do not have to be actually "stopped" in the case they are indicating a right turn and the mo'bike is going straight ahead.

It is many, many years since I have ridden a mo'bike so I have no romantic attachment to their always being right even when wrong, but have to say I cannot recall ever being inconvenienced in any really inconsiderate way by a rider of one. I can see though how those car drivers who do not understand the rules as you have set them out and who tend to be a little bit road ragey or else wanting to control others would get testy.

For those car drivers worrind about their wing mirrors I suggest just use your mirrors instead of worrying about them. Move over to the left when you see a 'bike working his way up through the traffic behind and 80% of the time when he gets past you you'll get a thankyou wave.


I do this almost every day along Queen Street. I'm always tentative with the lights and because I drive the route every day, I'm about to start moving as the light goes green. What really f***s me off is people who filter to the front and then decide what to do with their life before moving off. Same goes for people driving cars. Auckland would have much less of a traffic problem (IMHO) if people actually were ready to move when the light went green. None of this "Oh look! A green light! How pretty. Maybe I should start moving now." Although for this to work people would have to sort out their addictions with running red lights!

I ride in the bus lanes and T2 lanes the whole way and takes me approx 20mins on a bike (in peak hour) opposed to 35+ when in a car. That's a massive difference and the cost of fuel is much cheaper too! Smile

I do have one gripe with the T2/Bus lanes and that's when cyclists are using them in peak hour. I have no problem with cyclists on the road but these special lanes effectively become useless when a cyclist is using them. The cars cannot get past the guy on the bike which in turn almost negates the advantage to car pooling which is why they're there in the first place.

My 2c anyway

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  # 654003 11-Jul-2012 14:13
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All road users are equally terrible given suitably sized samples. On a daily basis I see cars, motorcycles, scooters and cyclists, all doing stupid\dangerous things, frequently breaking laws and making a nuisance of themselves.

I ride motorcycles myself, the only time I intentionally speed is when I deem it safer to do so in order to pass what I perceive as "dangerous" vehicles (billowing smoke, driving in an unsafe manner etc). I don't lane-split etc.

Just because a thing is "legal" doesn't mean that it's "considerate". Cyclists riding around narrow twisty wellington one-and-a-bit-lane streets at night time are often a hazard to themselves, and others, but it's not like they have much option thanks to whatever idiots designed the roading system in the first place.

Pedestrians on the parliament end of The Terrace have an almost suicidal disregard for all vehicles. I'm frequently amazed that there aren't more accidents down there.

Most of all, 'ware the Volvo driver!




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  # 654036 11-Jul-2012 14:59
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Personal observations as a cyclist, car driver and ex-motorcyclist:

1. The more expensive the vehicle, the less likely the indicators work. I suspect this says more about the driver...

2. Many cyclists and motorcyclists have a death wish.

3. Motorcyclists that use cycle lanes PISS ME OFF and are a danger to cyclists.

4. Scooters ought to be banned unless they can do the open road speed limit. I see them regularly scooting along at less than 50km/hr in the twilight zone between cars and cycles, where they're a hazard to both.

5. Motorcyclists - if you want to cut the queue and jump to the front, and then drag race across intersections, be my guest to collect a red light runner. However, if you want to jump the queue and then poodle across holding me up, don't expect me to be happy about it.

6. It should be compulsory for all drivers to graduate from cycle to motorcycle to car, in that order, over a period of several years. Those that survive phase 1 & 2 will certainly have a better appreciation for how things work on the road.

7. Maybe we should implement rules like I understand they have in China - the bigger vehicle is always in the wrong.

Phew, that's better, carry on....




Things are LookingUp....  A photo from my back yard :-)
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/u141-rodm.html 


 
 
 
 


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  # 654044 11-Jul-2012 15:36
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LookingUp:  6. It should be compulsory for all drivers to graduate from cycle to motorcycle to car, in that order, over a period of several years. Those that survive phase 1 & 2 will certainly have a better appreciation for how things work on the road.


This!!

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  # 654101 11-Jul-2012 17:08
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oxnsox:
LookingUp:  6. It should be compulsory for all drivers to graduate from cycle to motorcycle to car, in that order, over a period of several years. Those that survive phase 1 & 2 will certainly have a better appreciation for how things work on the road.


This!!


Only if we don't have to shave our legs, and wear lycra shorts.

Lycra shorts should be for wrestlers only!




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 

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  # 654129 11-Jul-2012 18:41
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vinnieg:
oxnsox:
LookingUp:  6. It should be compulsory for all drivers to graduate from cycle to motorcycle to car, in that order, over a period of several years. Those that survive phase 1 & 2 will certainly have a better appreciation for how things work on the road.


This!!


Only if we don't have to shave our legs, and wear lycra shorts.

Lycra shorts should be for wrestlers only!



does make a big difference when wearing lycra shorts whether you tuck your wallet down the front or down the back!    :-)

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  # 654248 11-Jul-2012 23:08
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Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".

In my mind it is extremely inconsiderate.

Filtering:
  1. You get in the way when the light suddenly goes green.
  2. You are unexpected (no driver expect's a bike coming up their side).
  3. You could easily get blocked in, on 2 lane situations.
  4. Wing mirrors are a problem, not for you though I suppose!
  5. You DO hold up traffic, it may be minor, but the front car has to deal with you and more often than not you slow thing's down, maybe not much, but you should take your place in the que like everyone else.
  6. What if a car is wanting to turn right/left? You get in the way when the lights go green.

Overall, you are doing some thing which inconsiderately holds people up (even if it is minor) and add's another unexpected element at the intersection which causes crashes. For me this is a big no no.


Lane Splitting:
  1. You are unexpected, you pull up in the car's blind spot.
  2. You get in the way of car's merging/changing lanes.
  3. Quite often this is done fast, adding to the danger.
  4. You are generally doing this in a setting which has far more complications than your average highway overtake.
  5. You are closer than your average highway overtake.
  6. If the car in front of you needs to swerve, they may hit you (you could be in their blind spot).
  7. You limit the car to your left's movement, limiting their maneuverability and hence safety.
  8. You are not just endangering yourself, but everyone around you!

Again, it is unnessacery danger to yourself and hence others. Dont think that this only endangers yourself, if you hit or even surprise a car you could quite easily cause a significant crash. Even if it is a minior crash, it is all your fault, you have damaged some one elses vehicle and wasted their time.


I have 101 examples I can give to why both of these are horrible idea's. Sorry but I think they're careless move's for impatient people.

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  # 654288 12-Jul-2012 07:44
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ArcticSilver: Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".

In my mind it is extremely inconsiderate.

Filtering:
  1. You get in the way when the light suddenly goes green.
  2. You are unexpected (no driver expect's a bike coming up their side).
  3. You could easily get blocked in, on 2 lane situations.
  4. Wing mirrors are a problem, not for you though I suppose!
  5. You DO hold up traffic, it may be minor, but the front car has to deal with you and more often than not you slow thing's down, maybe not much, but you should take your place in the que like everyone else.
  6. What if a car is wanting to turn right/left? You get in the way when the lights go green.

Overall, you are doing some thing which inconsiderately holds people up (even if it is minor) and add's another unexpected element at the intersection which causes crashes. For me this is a big no no.


Lane Splitting:
  1. You are unexpected, you pull up in the car's blind spot.
  2. You get in the way of car's merging/changing lanes.
  3. Quite often this is done fast, adding to the danger.
  4. You are generally doing this in a setting which has far more complications than your average highway overtake.
  5. You are closer than your average highway overtake.
  6. If the car in front of you needs to swerve, they may hit you (you could be in their blind spot).
  7. You limit the car to your left's movement, limiting their maneuverability and hence safety.
  8. You are not just endangering yourself, but everyone around you!

Again, it is unnessacery danger to yourself and hence others. Dont think that this only endangers yourself, if you hit or even surprise a car you could quite easily cause a significant crash. Even if it is a minior crash, it is all your fault, you have damaged some one elses vehicle and wasted their time.


I have 101 examples I can give to why both of these are horrible idea's. Sorry but I think they're careless move's for impatient people.


Lane splitting i also disagree with. As regards filtering you clearly have not read any posts on that, or you seem to have a hate for motorcycles. None of your Filtering comments are fact. 

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  # 654326 12-Jul-2012 09:20
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Filtering is fine when they are proper bikes being ridden by people with a clue so get moving quickly. When the volume of bikes gets to the point where there are space issues etc at the front of the lights then perhaps it can be re-looked at, but for now, like with allowing them in the bus lanes etc there is no impact on car drivers worth mentioning.




Richard rich.ms

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  # 654329 12-Jul-2012 09:22
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ArcticSilver: Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".

In my mind it is extremely inconsiderate.

Filtering:
  1. You get in the way when the light suddenly goes green.
  2. You are unexpected (no driver expect's a bike coming up their side).
  3. You could easily get blocked in, on 2 lane situations.
  4. Wing mirrors are a problem, not for you though I suppose!
  5. You DO hold up traffic, it may be minor, but the front car has to deal with you and more often than not you slow thing's down, maybe not much, but you should take your place in the que like everyone else.
  6. What if a car is wanting to turn right/left? You get in the way when the lights go green.

Overall, you are doing some thing which inconsiderately holds people up (even if it is minor) and add's another unexpected element at the intersection which causes crashes. For me this is a big no no.


Lane Splitting:
  1. You are unexpected, you pull up in the car's blind spot.
  2. You get in the way of car's merging/changing lanes.
  3. Quite often this is done fast, adding to the danger.
  4. You are generally doing this in a setting which has far more complications than your average highway overtake.
  5. You are closer than your average highway overtake.
  6. If the car in front of you needs to swerve, they may hit you (you could be in their blind spot).
  7. You limit the car to your left's movement, limiting their maneuverability and hence safety.
  8. You are not just endangering yourself, but everyone around you!

Again, it is unnessacery danger to yourself and hence others. Dont think that this only endangers yourself, if you hit or even surprise a car you could quite easily cause a significant crash. Even if it is a minior crash, it is all your fault, you have damaged some one elses vehicle and wasted their time.


I have 101 examples I can give to why both of these are horrible idea's. Sorry but I think they're careless move's for impatient people.


I don't agree with the majority of what you said, mainly because you are forgetting that before EVERY maneuver you do in a car you MUST check your mirrors and blindspots, if you don't do that then you are not aware of your surroundings and really shouldn't have earned your driving license.  Besides if you did pull out and hit a cyclist/motorcyclist who was filtering guess whose fault it is ?  Thats right yours!  Becuase you did not check to see if it was safe before you pulled out ... those funny mirrors are not decorational you know!
Also if you are turning then those funny orange flashy things must be activated (a good time BEFORE you perform your turn). Remember the motorcyclist has eyes too and is paying very close attention to where people are indicating they want to go and probably does not want to bash into you (him/her/it being only a bag of soft meat and your car being a bit more solid), they can also usually see further as they are sitting up higher.

Admittedly you get twats in all camps who think they are superior and the rules don't apply to them, or they go way to fast, but 99% of bike riders are probably a far better road users than is the average.

Also for most bikes there is a good reason why the riders don't like sitting in a queue ... they get fecking hot!  You are sitting on top of the engine, most are air cooled (or a puny little radiator/fan) and sitting waiting in a long line of traffic the temperature of the bike and rider goes up, I know my GXSR600 used to ramp up really quick and it was state of the art at the time!

As a previous poster says .. to get a car license it would be good if people first had to learn how to cycle, then motorcycle so people learn awareness!


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  # 654338 12-Jul-2012 09:38
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richms: Filtering is fine when they are proper bikes being ridden by people with a clue so get moving quickly. When the volume of bikes gets to the point where there are space issues etc at the front of the lights then perhaps it can be re-looked at, but for now, like with allowing them in the bus lanes etc there is no impact on car drivers worth mentioning.


Yes. If when filtering, there is a need to squeeze in between the cars on the right and the curb on the left, or cars are turning left, or there are no traffic lights, I don't filter. If I need to take a wee risk, or inconvenience a car, I will stay in the lane.

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