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  # 654341 12-Jul-2012 09:42
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tdgeek:
mjb:
tdgeek: If the lights are red and will stay red, I will go up the inside to the head of the queue. Allows me to get away sooner, frees up one space in the lane, I keep away from the cars. Simple manners

[snip quotes]

Oh ok, i thought it meant he was putting me in the bad bin! As regards my last sentence.


Conversely, I do put you in the bad bin.... I've never seen your reasoning before, and it makes sense to me now, but in the past nothing makes my blood boil more than the motorcyclists that sneak up the queue, effectively jumping it.

To me, a queue is a queue. I was there first, why should you jump in front of me and potentially stop me being able to cross an intersection/make a turn? Sure, it's rare, but that's my point of view as a car driver. Granted, I do see your point of view now, and it does lessen my angst ;)

Disclaimer: also a cyclist, and the bad cyclists (dangerous, riding without helmets, not looking, blocking traffic, etc) drive me mad too.


I will clarify.

This is filtering which is legal. It does not affect any cars ahead of me as I'm not jumping in the queue. Say you are ahead of me. I move up the inside of the cars, and stay left once I am at the front, about a meter ahead. Light goes green, I am gone. No car has been blocked or lost a place, they progress normally. The cars behind me do gain a place, I have effectively reduced the queue.


Yes I agree that so long as the first car/bike off the front is quick enough that is true. I often do this by  going into the left lane at a set of lights, saves a lot of time, doesn't adversely affect traffic.

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  # 654342 12-Jul-2012 09:46
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ArcticSilver: Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".

In my mind it is extremely inconsiderate.....
 
....I have 101 examples I can give to why both of these are horrible idea's. Sorry but I think they're careless move's for impatient people.


Almost everything you say gives the impression that you do not check your mirrors or directly check any blind spot before you make a manouvre in your car. It also seems, from the problems you mention, that you do not indicate either.

Like many of these threads it seems to me that there are many drivers around who just do not like being overtaken (that is also apparant from their behaviours on the road) and believe that everyone else should follow them in the "queue" that they are "managing".

 
 
 
 


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  # 654463 12-Jul-2012 12:26
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ArcticSilver: Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".


So are you also against cyclists doing the same thing? And also stop them from breaking all the other various road laws that licensed vehicle users have to obey and that cyclists are also supposed to but frequently don't?




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  # 654479 12-Jul-2012 12:49
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stevenz:
ArcticSilver: Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".


So are you also against cyclists doing the same thing? And also stop them from breaking all the other various road laws that licensed vehicle users have to obey and that cyclists are also supposed to but frequently don't?


I didn't think cyclists had to stop for stop signs and red lights?!?! When did this change?!?!

</sarcasm>

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  # 654481 12-Jul-2012 12:55
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stevenz:
ArcticSilver: Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".


So are you also against cyclists doing the same thing? And also stop them from breaking all the other various road laws that licensed vehicle users have to obey and that cyclists are also supposed to but frequently don't?


I dont support cyclists even being on the road. But no, they shouldnt do this as they cannot accelerate at the same rate as a typical car so do hold people up. Motorbikes dont cause those problems.




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  # 654506 12-Jul-2012 13:19
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richms:
stevenz:
ArcticSilver: Well I have to say, as a Cyclist and car driver I believe it should be illegal for Motorcyclists to "Filter" or "Lane split".


So are you also against cyclists doing the same thing? And also stop them from breaking all the other various road laws that licensed vehicle users have to obey and that cyclists are also supposed to but frequently don't?


I dont support cyclists even being on the road. But no, they shouldnt do this as they cannot accelerate at the same rate as a typical car so do hold people up. Motorbikes dont cause those problems.


Also, cyclists undertake on the left hand side.  Where people don't look.  When turning left they cause more problems.  Especially if they stick in the largest blind spot aka passenger side rear window





I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 

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  # 654509 12-Jul-2012 13:25
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Had a great experience with a car driver on my way to work on my scooter this morning.

We were all travelling around 50kph and he decided to overtake 5 cars, me and a trolley bus (in the lead) in a single lane road in order to be first at the red light, which he would have been anyway as the intersection splits for the lights and everyone else lined up behind the bus.

Had a double coffee, and am going to McDonalds for lunch, I figure my luck will hold after he missed me by a couple of inches...

 
 
 
 


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  # 654538 12-Jul-2012 14:02
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Before I had a bike I use to think I was an amazing car driver and got pissed off with riders who lane split/filtered.

The main issue is that people who haven't ridden a motorbike don't learn to be fully aware of their surroundings as you naturally get a "safe" feeling when you're sitting in a cage.

The first thing you learn on a bike is to be fully aware of your surroundings at all times and not to rely on your mirrors.  You learn to head check (turn your head and look with your eyes) before every lane change/turn.  I have driven some cars (Chevy Camaro and a Holden station wagon) where it wasn't possible to head check on the drivers side so alot of caution is required when making these turns.

When you are approaching a car on a bike you can actually see the driver through his rear view mirror and are able to see what the person is doing (picking his nose, singing or looking to change lanes) and can use that information to judge if lane splitting at that moment would be safe.

That being said I've always thought that if someone has an accident on a motorbike its always the bike riders fault as he either miss judged something, put himself in the wrong position or lost attention to his surroundings for even a second.

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# 654560 12-Jul-2012 14:19
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GRISDALE: Before I had a bike I use to think I was an amazing car driver and got pissed off with riders who lane split/filtered.

The main issue is that people who haven't ridden a motorbike don't learn to be fully aware of their surroundings as you naturally get a "safe" feeling when you're sitting in a cage.

The first thing you learn on a bike is to be fully aware of your surroundings at all times and not to rely on your mirrors.  You learn to head check (turn your head and look with your eyes) before every lane change/turn.  I have driven some cars (Chevy Camaro and a Holden station wagon) where it wasn't possible to head check on the drivers side so alot of caution is required when making these turns.

When you are approaching a car on a bike you can actually see the driver through his rear view mirror and are able to see what the person is doing (picking his nose, singing or looking to change lanes) and can use that information to judge if lane splitting at that moment would be safe.

That being said I've always thought that if someone has an accident on a motorbike its always the bike riders fault as he either miss judged something, put himself in the wrong position or lost attention to his surroundings for even a second.


Grisdale - you took the words right out of my mouth! Best comments yet.

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  # 654564 12-Jul-2012 14:20
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jonherries: Had a great experience with a car driver on my way to work on my scooter this morning.

We were all travelling around 50kph and he decided to overtake 5 cars, me and a trolley bus (in the lead) in a single lane road in order to be first at the red light, which he would have been anyway as the intersection splits for the lights and everyone else lined up behind the bus.

Had a double coffee, and am going to McDonalds for lunch, I figure my luck will hold after he missed me by a couple of inches...



What a pack of lies!

50kph on a scooter indeed!!

;-)


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  # 654587 12-Jul-2012 14:41
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Slightly off topic

My Car, Honda Accord Euro, Bike is Suzuki GSX 650.

Bike rego, just paid was $528, car is less then half that? Bike uses less gas, saving overseas funds, creates less pollution, reduces parking needs by the council, yet I pay so much more Rego

Yes, ACC is the difference?? But I'm not a 18yo, on his first bike, nor is mine a $400 first hack bike, so while I am not in the demographic for accidents, I'd love to see the stats for cars and bike accidents, by age

rant over

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  # 654605 12-Jul-2012 14:56
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Relative costs from ACC: 

Passenger vehicles 100%
Mopeds 250%
Motorcycles 0‐600cc 900%
Motorcycles 601cc+ 1500%

They cap the levies at what they consider to be an 'affordable' price as if they applied the true levy as shown above then no-one could afford it.






Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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  # 654607 12-Jul-2012 14:57
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bike stats by age:
http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/motorcyclecrashfacts/

Surprisingly the 30+ age ground are the worst offenders...I'm almost in the 30 year old bracket, have two motorbikes, but haven't binned either. I've dropped one at low speed...as in very low, on my slippery garage lino.

On the same page are pedestrian, cycle, and car. Although car is split up to speed, distraction, young drivers etc

I think the 40+ age group has the highest due to some person having a midlife crisis, thinking "I'll buy a Harley, it's bound to handle as good as the GN250 I had when I was a 17 year old".

Not realising that Harleys can't turn corners...




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 

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  # 654628 12-Jul-2012 15:36
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vinnieg: bike stats by age:
http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/motorcyclecrashfacts/

Surprisingly the 30+ age ground are the worst offenders...I'm almost in the 30 year old bracket, have two motorbikes, but haven't binned either. I've dropped one at low speed...as in very low, on my slippery garage lino.

On the same page are pedestrian, cycle, and car. Although car is split up to speed, distraction, young drivers etc

I think the 40+ age group has the highest due to some person having a midlife crisis, thinking "I'll buy a Harley, it's bound to handle as good as the GN250 I had when I was a 17 year old".

Not realising that Harleys can't turn corners...


Tks Vinnie interesting read. Is there a car version, I'm keen on the % of bikes to cars and the % od accidents, bikes to cars

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  # 654651 12-Jul-2012 16:11
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scuwp: Relative costs from ACC: 

Passenger vehicles 100%
Mopeds 250%
Motorcycles 0‐600cc 900%
Motorcycles 601cc+ 1500%

They cap the levies at what they consider to be an 'affordable' price as if they applied the true levy as shown above then no-one could afford it.




This comes from where?  ACC claims form at hospital doesnt distinguish between a 4 wheeler farm bike accident vs a road bike accident let alone a moped vs motorcycle (wish it did).


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