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  Reply # 666329 2-Aug-2012 16:04
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mattRSK: No, it comes back to my belief that the purpose of marriage is to raise a family. Same sex unions are completely different and I think should not be covered under the same definition. Anyway that's my belief. What else can I say, that is how I would vote if I was in parliament. Thankyou for the respectful debate. 




So you believe I should not be married? My wife and I have been married going on 7 years (this month actually - thanks for the reminder!). We had no intention of having children, and now we can't 'naturally'. Should we not have got married??? I love my wife and want to spend the rest of my life with her, but you believe she should not be my wife.

Interesting.


hmm sorry about formatting - tags not working properly for me.

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  Reply # 666331 2-Aug-2012 16:07
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crackrdbycracku: I don't, and have never, seen why it matters if you are born a certain way or if you choose to be a certain way. 

The rights are attributed to the human. 

A person chooses to be religious but that, as far a I know, has never been used, by civilised people, as an argument to deny then the same civil rights as everybody else.  
  

Somebody hasn't been paying attention in history class - Various people's choice of religion has been used as an excuse to deny them any conceivable right, up to & including the right to life. Pick a Holy War, any holy war. Jews, Catholics, Protestants, pick a faith, any faith, some other faith has merrily denied them anything from citizenship to life simply for professing their faith.

ETA - apart from that, I'm in complete agreement.

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  Reply # 666336 2-Aug-2012 16:11
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BlueShift:
crackrdbycracku: I don't, and have never, seen why it matters if you are born a certain way or if you choose to be a certain way. 

The rights are attributed to the human. 

A person chooses to be religious but that, as far a I know, has never been used, by civilised people, as an argument to deny then the same civil rights as everybody else.  

  


Somebody hasn't been paying attention in history class - Various people's choice of religion has been used as an excuse to deny them any conceivable right, up to & including the right to life. Pick a Holy War, any holy war. Jews, Catholics, Protestants, pick a faith, any faith, some other faith has merrily denied them anything from citizenship to life simply for professing their faith.


As I said: by civilised people. 

This debate is about how the NZ Govt and civil society should act, there are plenty of examples of regimes behaving terribly. But so what? 




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  Reply # 666351 2-Aug-2012 16:28
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The mere fact that this debate is going on, shows to me that the world is changing, rapidly, for the better in my opinion.

Not so many years ago homosexuality was illegal in NZ, and now a majority of society is on the verge of not just accepting homosexual marriages, but virtually saying "why on earth CAN'T they get married, we should fix that".

It makes me smile to think that in probably 20 years we'll look back at this time and think, "how did we think it was right to discriminate like that!", in the same way we do about past racial discrimination today.

It shouldn't be for the state or society, to determine what is and isn't a valid civil relationship between consenting people, it is up to the people who actually have those relationships.

Leave religion at your church, temple, mosque, and home.




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I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


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  Reply # 666365 2-Aug-2012 16:41
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trig42: 

So you believe I should not be married? My wife and I have been married going on 7 years (this month actually - thanks for the reminder!). We had no intention of having children, and now we can't 'naturally'. Should we not have got married??? I love my wife and want to spend the rest of my life with her, but you believe she should not be my wife.

Interesting.


hmm sorry about formatting - tags not working properly for me.
 


That doesn't make any sense.

Whether you choose to or not, or can't doesn't matter. Biologically a male and a female can have children and raise a family. You are just an exception.

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Banana?
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  Reply # 666376 2-Aug-2012 16:45
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freitasm: I've updated the other post so it makes sense now.

thanks.

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  Reply # 666384 2-Aug-2012 16:55
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I wasn't talking about formatting.

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  Reply # 666385 2-Aug-2012 16:55
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I wasn't talking about formatting. I have updated my post.

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  Reply # 666389 2-Aug-2012 17:01
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mattRSK: Biologically a male and a female can have children and raise a family.


Not always true. Are you saying that a man and a women who cannot have children for biological reasons shouldn't get married? Or do they get let off on a technicality?

Marriage and having children are mutually exclusive!




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  Reply # 666392 2-Aug-2012 17:05
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This thread is going around in circles. Everyone is entitled to their belief. At the end of the day it's out of our hands. Parliament will decide, that wont change peoples beliefs. So really there is no point wasting any more time talking about it.

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  Reply # 666394 2-Aug-2012 17:08
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ajobbins:
mattRSK: Biologically a male and a female can have children and raise a family.


Not always true. Are you saying that a man and a women who cannot have children for biological reasons shouldn't get married? Or do they get let off on a technicality?

Marriage and having children are mutually exclusive!


I answered that in the same post you quoted from.

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Reply # 666395 2-Aug-2012 17:11
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mattRSK: So really there is no point wasting any more time talking about it.


Doesn't mean we still can't entertain healthy debate on this topic.

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  Reply # 666403 2-Aug-2012 17:21
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mattRSK:
ajobbins:
mattRSK: Biologically a male and a female can have children and raise a family.


Not always true. Are you saying that a man and a women who cannot have children for biological reasons shouldn't get married? Or do they get let off on a technicality?

Marriage and having children are mutually exclusive!


I answered that in the same post you quoted from.



Yeah, with:

You are just an exception.

You seriously don't see that as a slippery road? Rules are there in large part to protect us exceptions. 

As far as the debate goes: 

a) Since when has an online forum ever had everybody agree... ever.
b) Disagreement is a healthy part of democracy. 
c) It's fun.




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  Reply # 666411 2-Aug-2012 17:38
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menabassily:

Ok, "Natural" means it's nature's way, and yes eating a husband is normal and happens, as humans we have this criminalized. Same thing with same sex relationships, it's normal, it happens in nature as well, but they are not legally allowed to get married like others.

Second thing, sexual preference is not about "learning" however, yes we do learn from nature, most of our inventions are based on that bare idea.

Update:

And yes, we are animals, you said we evolved, that's good, pigs are no fish and fish are no birds. What's your point????


My point is that by using the word natural I mean physically and “mechanically” its just does not work. Never has, and never will. Gay couples are not natural. Maybe thats not the word, but its not the norm for obvious reasons.

Gay and Lesbian couples cannot make children. Their offspring cannot have the DNA of both parents like a “normal” child baring relationship can. I see it as them asking for rights to something nature does not allow.

So yes I see gay relationships as unnatural. Its got nothing to do with the way I was brought up, or my religion. Maybe its just that part of me that shudders when I see two guys together, makes me ill. (Sorry if that offends, but its how I feel) And I know that many heterosexual men feel the same. Allowing gay marriage is not going to solve the problem about society not accepting it.  Many people including myself will never accept it.

Just my view. Go on shoot me down ...

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