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3053 posts

Uber Geek


  # 675456 22-Aug-2012 13:02
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oxnsox:
 Similarly if the only thing wrong was the lack of the WOF the Insurance Co probably would be liable.

Not so sure on this. You'd have to have a good reason to not have a warrant I'd think.
It's a similar arguement to 'the cheque is in the mail', isn't it?


There is Insurance law that "prevents an insurer from relying on certain types of exclusions,
except where the excluded circumstances caused or contributed to the loss."

3231 posts

Uber Geek


  # 675488 22-Aug-2012 14:17
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ratsun81: If you have Asymmetrical tyres then you must match them or replace all of them. 

If the tyres are non directional then it doesnt really matter. 




Just to clarify:  Tyres must be of the same type (a-symmetrical, direction etc) only on the same axle.  It would certainly be preferable to have the same tyres all around but it is not a WOF requirement.  

My money is always putting the better tyres on the rear.  Most 'normal' drivers can handle a bit of sledging or under-steer and recover, it is normally gradual, easily detected, and easily rectified.  It is far less severe than the rear end letting go suddenly, which most normal drivers couldn't handle, panic sets in, and they do the wrong thing, or remember what to do far to late.  





 




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



 
 
 
 


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  # 675489 22-Aug-2012 14:19
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ubergeeknz:
But if something was wrong, and contributes to an accident (tyres would be a very likely candidate) and you DIDN'T have a WOF, you could easily be accused of negligence, whereas if you had taken reasonable steps, such as having a valid WOF, you are likely to be covered regardless.


Unless they had proof you knew about it from a warrant sheet saying that you had issues that needed to be addressed soon, which is why it really annoys me when warrant places write stuff like that down on the check sheet.




Richard rich.ms



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Master Geek


  # 675497 22-Aug-2012 14:38
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scuwp:
ratsun81: If you have Asymmetrical tyres then you must match them or replace all of them. 

If the tyres are non directional then it doesnt really matter. 




Just to clarify:  Tyres must be of the same type (a-symmetrical, direction etc) only on the same axle.  It would certainly be preferable to have the same tyres all around but it is not a WOF requirement.  

My money is always putting the better tyres on the rear.  Most 'normal' drivers can handle a bit of sledging or under-steer and recover, it is normally gradual, easily detected, and easily rectified.  It is far less severe than the rear end letting go suddenly, which most normal drivers couldn't handle, panic sets in, and they do the wrong thing, or remember what to do far to late.  





 


Thanks a lot.

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  # 675503 22-Aug-2012 14:56
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ankit816:
scuwp: My money is always putting the better tyres on the rear.  Most 'normal' drivers can handle a bit of sledging or under-steer and recover, it is normally gradual, easily detected, and easily rectified.  It is far less severe than the rear end letting go suddenly, which most normal drivers couldn't handle, panic sets in, and they do the wrong thing, or remember what to do far to late.    



it really depends on the severity of the understeer (you turn into a corner but the car goes straight) or the oversteer (the back end of the car slide out - towards the outside of the cornering radius) ...

the most common is understeer as you turn into a corner at a faster speed than you have friction, or you accelerate a FWD car in a corner way too hard ...

if you are turning a FWD into a corner so fast because your front tyres are so grippy your back end could lose traction and slide out ... if that happens ... you probably end up facing the other way ... hence if you are a normal driver it probably won't happen

if you accelerate a RWD very hard you will Power oversteer like tiff needell ... this defintiely could (will) happen even if you are a normal driver on new grippy tyres

last thing to consider - braking ... the only thing that stops your car on the road is your tyres :)

other things to consider is road noise, bumpiness and wear, but don't believe anything the shop says, you need proper reviews/tests to compare BETWEEN tyres ... of course the manufacturer will say these are quiet comfy tyres but compared to what! on the autobahn?

as long as you buy decent mid range tyres and put them on the front you'd be fine ... but don't try any stunts until you've dealt with the rears ...


you don't need super expensive goodyear f1 assymetrical 2 but that's the optimum at the moment




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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Master Geek


  # 675506 22-Aug-2012 15:04
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joker97:
ankit816:
scuwp: My money is always putting the better tyres on the rear.  Most 'normal' drivers can handle a bit of sledging or under-steer and recover, it is normally gradual, easily detected, and easily rectified.  It is far less severe than the rear end letting go suddenly, which most normal drivers couldn't handle, panic sets in, and they do the wrong thing, or remember what to do far to late.    



it really depends on the severity of the understeer (you turn into a corner but the car goes straight) or the oversteer (the back end of the car slide out - towards the outside of the cornering radius) ...

the most common is understeer as you turn into a corner at a faster speed than you have friction, or you accelerate a FWD car in a corner way too hard ...

if you are turning a FWD into a corner so fast because your front tyres are so grippy your back end could lose traction and slide out ... if that happens ... you probably end up facing the other way ... hence if you are a normal driver it probably won't happen

if you accelerate a RWD very hard you will Power oversteer like tiff needell ... this defintiely could (will) happen even if you are a normal driver on new grippy tyres

last thing to consider - braking ... the only thing that stops your car on the road is your tyres :)

other things to consider is road noise, bumpiness and wear, but don't believe anything the shop says, you need proper reviews/tests to compare BETWEEN tyres ... of course the manufacturer will say these are quiet comfy tyres but compared to what! on the autobahn?

as long as you buy decent mid range tyres and put them on the front you'd be fine ... but don't try any stunts until you've dealt with the rears ...


you don't need super expensive goodyear f1 assymetrical 2 but that's the optimum at the moment


Thanks for your detailed explanation. Helps a lot indeed.

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  # 675513 22-Aug-2012 15:32
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Also bear in mind you should drive VERY conservatively on your first 1000km's on new tyres.

 
 
 
 


3053 posts

Uber Geek


  # 675519 22-Aug-2012 15:49
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It would appear that since the tyre manufacturers recommend newer tyres to the rear there are ambulance chasing lawyers in the US ready to mount law suits against tyre fitters."If there has been a hydroplaning accident, it is imperative that the tires are examined by a forensics professional and that the service records of the vehicle be investigated. If new tires were purchased or installed on the front of the vehicle, we believe that the installer of these tires could be legally negligent and responsible for all injuries suffered in such accident." Hurrah for the ACC.

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 675563 22-Aug-2012 17:46
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What a load of crap. You are much much more likely to crash due to aquaplaning with worn fronts than rears.


That said the average driver can handle understeer much easier than oversteer

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  # 675568 22-Aug-2012 18:10
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LOL!!!! Who made that piece of crap?
So very clearly rigged.

Also, NZ does not have concrete highways ;)

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Uber Geek


  # 675573 22-Aug-2012 18:21
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TheUngeek: LOL!!!! Who made that piece of crap?
So very clearly rigged.

Also, NZ does not have concrete highways ;)


Why does it have to be rigged ? What is the advantage to any tyre manufacturer of what axle to advise to put two new tyres on?

The principal is still the same when you start to slide no matter what surface you are driving on.

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 675574 22-Aug-2012 18:23
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No, those cars were not driven the same. One was clearly driven in a way to provoke the spins

The surface makes every difference

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  # 675575 22-Aug-2012 18:23
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clevedon: Why does it have to be rigged ? What is the advantage to any tyre manufacturer of what axle to advise to put two new tyres on?

The principal is still the same when you start to slide no matter what surface you are driving on.

The fact is it's a hardly scientific comparison. Those are professional drivers and even they couldn't keep the blue car on the road?! Please.

It would have been better to have two regular drivers doing the test.

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Uber Geek


  # 675576 22-Aug-2012 18:24
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TheUngeek: LOL!!!! Who made that piece of crap?
So very clearly rigged.

Also, NZ does not have concrete highways ;)


So it's a global conspiracy by the tyre makers who know absolutely nothing about what they're doing?

You'd think that if their advice to the general public was so obviously wrong that one or more major tyre brands would have a dissenting opinion.

If you fancy yourself as better than an average driver you should be on 4 good tyres.

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