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  # 676723 25-Aug-2012 10:24
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Asrafrate: I don't think he'll ever be set free.

Look at what happened with Ian Brady and Myra Hindley (Moors murders.) Those two did appeal after appeal, claimed they'd been in jail for enough time. Claimed remorse and all sorts but the Brits never released them. Hindley is dead now, and I don't think Brady will ever see beyond the prison bars.

What this guy did, yeah, the chances of him being freed? Nah.


What was the cost of that? What was the impact of allowing that (Parole Hearings and appeals) to the families of the people they killed? Is that fair?

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  # 676724 25-Aug-2012 10:35
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Talkiet: It's not like he's Hitler or someone where the world needs to learn a lesson and not forget - it's a one off nutjob. There's nothing to be gained from remembering or replaying what he did. Chuck him in a cell, forget about him for 21 years.


He is not exactly a one-off. His crimes were motivated by a xenophobic hate of immigrants. There have been a number of similar crimes in different places in europe in recent years.

 
 
 
 


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  # 676808 25-Aug-2012 13:29
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farcus:
networkn: I guess my concern is how can the maximum sentence reasonably be 21 years, just doesn't make any sense.

Blah blah extra detention, but how must those families feel!


as someone else has already pointed out - he can be detained indefinitely beyond that 21 years if he is still considered dangerous.
Norway (like NZ and unlike the US) has a rehabilitative justice system.

Are you aware of the maximum sentence this crime would get in NZ?


15 years parole in 10..




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  # 677141 26-Aug-2012 15:36
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This is a case where I believe the death sentence should still apply.

To me its not about weather he will be rehabilitated its about justice.



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  # 677143 26-Aug-2012 15:41
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Stan: This is a case where I believe the death sentence should still apply.

To me its not about weather he will be rehabilitated its about justice.




thankfully that's a sentiment that most people in a civilised country do not agree with.

It was interesting watching some interviews with family members of victims who seemed happy with the verdict and sentence.



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  # 677144 26-Aug-2012 15:42
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The death sentence is something I struggle with internally. I don't really think people should support the death sentence unless they truly believe they could execute another person themselves, however some crimes are so heinous as to warrant the taking of said life, to provide comfort for the victims families. I find the idea of paying to have someone imprisoned for life, expensive. Perhaps they should ship him to a Thai Prison for 21 years, that would be a hell not worth living through.



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  # 677145 26-Aug-2012 15:44
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farcus:
Stan: This is a case where I believe the death sentence should still apply.

To me its not about weather he will be rehabilitated its about justice.




thankfully that's a sentiment that most people in a civilised country do not agree with.

It was interesting watching some interviews with family members of victims who seemed happy with the verdict and sentence.


Well I guess if you grew up in a country where this was a maximum sentence and you knew nothing else, and he actually got the maximum sentence, perhaps it does seem fair. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 677169 26-Aug-2012 16:41
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networkn: The death sentence is something I struggle with internally.


IMO, the death penalty only works if you are religious.

If you're not religious, then in what conceivable way is inflicting death a punishment?  It's not painful to inflict death, (not upon the subject at least, their equally innocent family perhaps), and even if it was, when you are dead, you're dead, it is meaningless to the person who dies. 

If you are religious then of course you can say "we sent you to hell before you had any chance to repent" or some such thing.  But much of the world is moving away from such irrational beliefs.

If in some universe I'd been convicted of such crime and a choice was presented to me, "you can spend the rest of your life in prison, or we can execute you quickly and painlessly", I'd probably choose the execution.  

To steal from Pink Floyd's "The Great Gig in the Sky", 

"I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."

And of course, this is not exactly new thinking, we can look at Plato's account of Socrate's death, and if we discount the (I really want a different word here) possibility of an "afterlife" then we are left with the fact that death is "like a long sleep, the best of sleeps".  

So by the death sentence it could be said we would give our wrongdoers to society a permanent sleep, well, that's quite nice of us, I certainly like sleeping, but you'd expect that perhaps for such terrible crimes against society, that something a little less kind could be imagined, or at least, some manner in which the debt could be repaid conjectured.

We don't even give our sick and disabled the kindness of a quick death yet.




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  # 677172 26-Aug-2012 16:45
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old3eyes:
farcus:
networkn: I guess my concern is how can the maximum sentence reasonably be 21 years, just doesn't make any sense.

Blah blah extra detention, but how must those families feel!


as someone else has already pointed out - he can be detained indefinitely beyond that 21 years if he is still considered dangerous.
Norway (like NZ and unlike the US) has a rehabilitative justice system.

Are you aware of the maximum sentence this crime would get in NZ?


15 years parole in 10..


No. Life without the possibility of parole is the harshest punishment available in NZ.

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  # 677175 26-Aug-2012 17:01
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sleemanj:
networkn: The death sentence is something I struggle with internally.


IMO, the death penalty only works if you are religious.

If you're not religious, then in what conceivable way is inflicting death a punishment?  It's not painful to inflict death, (not upon the subject at least, their equally innocent family perhaps), and even if it was, when you are dead, you're dead, it is meaningless to the person who dies. 

If you are religious then of course you can say "we sent you to hell before you had any chance to repent" or some such thing.  But much of the world is moving away from such irrational beliefs.

If in some universe I'd been convicted of such crime and a choice was presented to me, "you can spend the rest of your life in prison, or we can execute you quickly and painlessly", I'd probably choose the execution.  

To steal from Pink Floyd's "The Great Gig in the Sky", 

"I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."

And of course, this is not exactly new thinking, we can look at Plato's account of Socrate's death, and if we discount the (I really want a different word here) possibility of an "afterlife" then we are left with the fact that death is "like a long sleep, the best of sleeps".  

So by the death sentence it could be said we would give our wrongdoers to society a permanent sleep, well, that's quite nice of us, I certainly like sleeping, but you'd expect that perhaps for such terrible crimes against society, that something a little less kind could be imagined, or at least, some manner in which the debt could be repaid conjectured.

We don't even give our sick and disabled the kindness of a quick death yet.


I disagree 

To my mind I would rather not share this earth with people who think killing multiple innocent children is something to do.


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  # 677194 26-Aug-2012 18:07
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Did he go to prison? He shouldn't of even gone to prison he should of been put in a mental institution they can lock them up for years and never let them out if need be.

He in prison as long as he doesn't have any contact with other inmates otherwise to some inside he will be looked up too, he might even be able to start his own little gang with his faithful followers who will just want to be like him.




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  # 677211 26-Aug-2012 18:43
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Kaos36: Did he go to prison? He shouldn't of even gone to prison he should of been put in a mental institution they can lock them up for years and never let them out if need be.

He in prison as long as he doesn't have any contact with other inmates otherwise to some inside he will be looked up too, he might even be able to start his own little gang with his faithful followers who will just want to be like him.


To be honest, the number of people who want to be just like him, who would be considered sane enough for prison would be pretty low. I am surprised he was considered sane. Most criminals would draw the line at mass murder, hence there isn't a lot of mass murder proportional to other crime.


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  # 677420 27-Aug-2012 09:23
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networkn:
old3eyes:
farcus:
networkn: I guess my concern is how can the maximum sentence reasonably be 21 years, just doesn't make any sense.

Blah blah extra detention, but how must those families feel!


as someone else has already pointed out - he can be detained indefinitely beyond that 21 years if he is still considered dangerous.
Norway (like NZ and unlike the US) has a rehabilitative justice system.

Are you aware of the maximum sentence this crime would get in NZ?


15 years parole in 10..


No. Life without the possibility of parole is the harshest punishment available in NZ.


And that happens how often for murder 1 in NZ??




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  # 677422 27-Aug-2012 09:26
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Kaos36: Did he go to prison? He shouldn't of even gone to prison he should of been put in a mental institution they can lock them up for years and never let them out if need be.

He in prison as long as he doesn't have any contact with other inmates otherwise to some inside he will be looked up too, he might even be able to start his own little gang with his faithful followers who will just want to be like him.


I seem to remember an item on the news the other week that if he had been found insane he could be out in a few years after the bleed heart liberals in the   health system  would say he's bee rehabilitated and can be let out  hence the  non insane verdict..




Regards,

Old3eyes




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  # 677426 27-Aug-2012 09:29
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old3eyes:
networkn:
old3eyes:
farcus:
networkn: I guess my concern is how can the maximum sentence reasonably be 21 years, just doesn't make any sense.

Blah blah extra detention, but how must those families feel!


as someone else has already pointed out - he can be detained indefinitely beyond that 21 years if he is still considered dangerous.
Norway (like NZ and unlike the US) has a rehabilitative justice system.

Are you aware of the maximum sentence this crime would get in NZ?


15 years parole in 10..


No. Life without the possibility of parole is the harshest punishment available in NZ.


And that happens how often for murder 1 in NZ??


Utterly irrelevant, the punishment still exists to be given. Also how often are 77 innocent people killed in NZ?

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