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  Reply # 681507 4-Sep-2012 21:28
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It does look like the OP only paid for 1.5 hours instead of 24, however if Tournament's complaint is around the (correctly paid according to the receipt) transaction fee then showing them the receipt should be enough to get it overturned. However they'd probably then turn around and complain about the 8 minutes of overtime.

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  Reply # 681510 4-Sep-2012 21:33
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NonprayingMantis: well I'll just jump in with my 2c


the 12 hour fee is $8
the CC fee is 50c


according to the ticket you had paid $7.50 plus the 50c fee (total $8) so you didn't qualify for the 12 hours, instead only qualifying for 1 1/2 hours that $7.50 gets you.

since every machine I have ever been to adds on the 50c automatically, I think it pretty unlikely that this one, for some reason, decided not to bother this time.

I think the most likely explanation is that, being in a rush, you accidentally only keyed up to $7.50 instead of $8 for your parking and pressed ok, then the machine said something like "50c transaction fee applies your credit card will be charged $8" you misunderstood and clicked ok on that thinking you had paid $8 for parking when actually you had paid $7.50

so unfortunately I think the parking company is in the right (even if seems grossly unfair) but they just explained it very badly.
they said you had not paid the 50c transaction fee. That is not correct. you did pay the 50c fee, but only paid $7.50 for the parking




If a sign said $8 for 12 hours parking, then I think it is very unlikely the OP would manually key in $7.50. Something must have gone on in the processing system as the OP was keying in details. It was possibly a message on the parking machine that said that only $7.50 of credit would be applied to the ticket, and 50cents would be the transaction fee, when the OP actually thought all that $8 credit would be applied to the ticket. But that would be a confusing system if that was the case.
This is one reason I hate pay and display system. I prefer systems where you get billed afterwards, so you only pay for what you use, rather than pay for what you think you may use, where the parking company makes on the difference and wins both ways, especially if you go over your time.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 681513 4-Sep-2012 21:41
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Here's a question that someone may be able to answer, Does the company involved have the legal right to enforce the charge?

If I remember correctly particular types of parking fines are not actually enforceable due to the issuer not being accepted as a creditor and this is one of the primary reasons behind the use of towing in place of ticketing in a lot of cases.

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  Reply # 681514 4-Sep-2012 21:44
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I am just wondering, did the OP drive into this carpark seeing a big sign on the outside of the building, saying $8 for 12 hours parking? If so did that same sign say that there was a 50cent transaction fee, or make any mention of any other additional fees for paying by credit card?. If not, then I think you have a case against disputing the ticket, especially if you take a photo of that sign. If they didn't disclose the fee until you were inside and had no option to pay for parking, then that may not be enough, although IANAL, as some of these carpark buildings now charge you a minimum fee now for driving in and then back out.

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  Reply # 681515 4-Sep-2012 21:45
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lucky015: Here's a question that someone may be able to answer, Does the company involved have the legal right to enforce the charge?

If I remember correctly particular types of parking fines are not actually enforceable due to the issuer not being accepted as a creditor and this is one of the primary reasons behind the use of towing in place of ticketing in a lot of cases.


IANAL but pretty sure there is a law based around a cow breaking into a neighbouring farm and causing damage to that farms land, so the farm can claim damages. eg the fee is 'damages', so I think it is legit.

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  Reply # 681518 4-Sep-2012 21:53
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mattwnz:
lucky015: Here's a question that someone may be able to answer, Does the company involved have the legal right to enforce the charge?

If I remember correctly particular types of parking fines are not actually enforceable due to the issuer not being accepted as a creditor and this is one of the primary reasons behind the use of towing in place of ticketing in a lot of cases.


IANAL but pretty sure there is a law based around a cow breaking into a neighbouring farm and causing damage to that farms land, so the farm can claim damages. eg the fee is 'damages', so I think it is legit.


Yes, However they are attempting to fine, Not attempting to charge for damages/loss.

They are opting to do something they have no right to do instead of something they do have a legal right to do because a fine is generally perceived to be enforceable.

Also they have the right to charge reasonable damages, Not just any charge they feel like.

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  Reply # 681537 4-Sep-2012 22:19
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they've been on fair go at least once

go to fair go

they are scammers and scumbags

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  Reply # 681538 4-Sep-2012 22:19
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They can not fine you (only authorities get to do that), and they can't just make up any old price they want.  

At the most, I reckon they could ask you to pay another 50c, but don't even offer them that!

I would not pay the bill.

If they send the bill to a collections company simply tell them, "I dispute this charge, I will pay only if the Disputed Tribunal orders it so".






---
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  Reply # 681542 4-Sep-2012 22:32
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sleemanj: They can not fine you (only authorities get to do that), and they can't just make up any old price they want. ?

At the most, I reckon they could ask you to pay another 50c, but don't even offer them that!

I would not pay the bill.

If they send the bill to a collections company simply tell them, "I dispute this charge, I will pay only if the Disputed Tribunal orders it so".




IANAL but I don't think any company can send a bill to a collection company if the debtor dispute the bill. The debtor should tell them in writing that they do still dispute it so they have this in writing. Taking a debt to a collection company potentially damages the debtors credit record, and they possibily could claim damages for that loss in their reputation and potential difficulty getting credit in the future.
I think the collection company would need to take the OP to the disputes tribunal to collect if it is disputed.
The question is what would a reasonable kiwi company do in this case?

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  Reply # 681543 4-Sep-2012 22:44
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mattwnz:
sleemanj: They can not fine you (only authorities get to do that), and they can't just make up any old price they want. ?

At the most, I reckon they could ask you to pay another 50c, but don't even offer them that!

I would not pay the bill.

If they send the bill to a collections company simply tell them, "I dispute this charge, I will pay only if the Disputed Tribunal orders it so".




IANAL but I don't think any company can send a bill to a collection company if the debtor dispute the bill. The debtor should tell them in writing that they do still dispute it so they have this in writing. Taking a debt to a collection company potentially damages the debtors credit record, and they possibily could claim damages for that loss in their reputation and potential difficulty getting credit in the future.
I think the collection company would need to take the OP to the disputes tribunal to collect if it is disputed.
The question is what would a reasonable kiwi company do in this case?


The company can send a bill to a debt collection company if they feel like it, if a debtor disputes it however, then that's a process handled at the debt collection company.

Tbh, I think this is pretty open and shut.  The original post which includes the infringement notice states, and I quote "Unfortunately you did not make the payment of the 50c credit card transaction fee."

The OP did however make said payment as shown on the receipt. The receipt therefore is proof and there is no further issue. I think however, Tournament could either:

A) Claim he overstayed the parking on the receipt and issue a new fine (not sure how legal this is?)
B) They'll still request the "Administration Fee" ($40) either way

Oh and for anyone who is interested in information on the legals of the "damages" that they are seeking, it's available on their website, http://nzcms.co.nz/appeals-faq/





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  Reply # 681548 4-Sep-2012 23:06
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CamH: The company can send a bill to a debt collection company if they feel like it, if a?debtor?disputes it however, then that's a process handled at the debt collection company.


But couldn't the person being pursued, sue the company for going down a route that will likely damage their credit rating, if they are proven to be in the wrong. A bad credit rating can affect lots of things in the future. Not saying they would be wrong in this case, but I am sure it happens.
But I think the best thing in this case will be the disputes tribunal if it can't be resolved amicably.

But in this case would they pay the fee 'without prejudice', and tell them that they are taking them to the disputes tribunal to claim the fee back as it is in dispute. Or do they wait for for the parking company to act? The problem is that to lodge a claim with the disputes tribunal costs a lot, compared to what the fee is, and you can't claim that back.



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  Reply # 681549 4-Sep-2012 23:08
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NonprayingMantis: well I'll just jump in with my 2c


the 12 hour fee is $8
the CC fee is 50c


according to the ticket you had paid $7.50 plus the 50c fee (total $8) so you didn't qualify for the 12 hours, instead only qualifying for 1 1/2 hours that $7.50 gets you.

since every machine I have ever been to adds on the 50c automatically, I think it pretty unlikely that this one, for some reason, decided not to bother this time.

I think the most likely explanation is that, being in a rush, you accidentally only keyed up to $7.50 instead of $8 for your parking and pressed ok, then the machine said something like "50c transaction fee applies your credit card will be charged $8" you misunderstood and clicked ok on that thinking you had paid $8 for parking when actually you had paid $7.50

so unfortunately I think the parking company is in the right (even if seems grossly unfair) but they just explained it very badly.
they said you had not paid the 50c transaction fee. That is not correct. you did pay the 50c fee, but only paid $7.50 for the parking




I am 100% sure I saw $8.00 on the pay and park display that day, so there's no question of having only paid $7.50. I figured it'd add 50c to the $8.00 and that's the thing I didn't check after paying since I was in a rush.





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  Reply # 681551 4-Sep-2012 23:10
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NonprayingMantis:
LennonNZ: What is looks like you got there at 19/8 14:17 and paid for ($2.50 * 3) + 0.50 ($8.00) for 1.5 Hours..

What I've seen on some machines and you press the time button and it increases and then goes to "Max" (or 12 Hours in your instance). I presume someone could pay for 2 Hours ($10) OR pay Max Time (12 Hours for $8).








I think he underpressed by one click

it would normally go up in 50c increments. instead of going all the way to $8 he stopped at $7.50 (which only gets 1.5 hours) then the machine added 50c transaction fee.


See above post, that was definitely not the case. I remember seeing $8.00 on the display.

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  Reply # 681553 4-Sep-2012 23:11
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shreyas:
NonprayingMantis: well I'll just jump in with my 2c


the 12 hour fee is $8
the CC fee is 50c


according to the ticket you had paid $7.50 plus the 50c fee (total $8) so you didn't qualify for the 12 hours, instead only qualifying for 1 1/2 hours that $7.50 gets you.

since every machine I have ever been to adds on the 50c automatically, I think it pretty unlikely that this one, for some reason, decided not to bother this time.

I think the most likely explanation is that, being in a rush, you accidentally only keyed up to $7.50 instead of $8 for your parking and pressed ok, then the machine said something like "50c transaction fee applies your credit card will be charged $8" you misunderstood and clicked ok on that thinking you had paid $8 for parking when actually you had paid $7.50

so unfortunately I think the parking company is in the right (even if seems grossly unfair) but they just explained it very badly.
they said you had not paid the 50c transaction fee. That is not correct. you did pay the 50c fee, but only paid $7.50 for the parking




I am 100% sure I saw $8.00 on the pay and park display that day, so there's no question of having only paid $7.50. I figured it'd add 50c to the $8.00 and that's the thing I didn't check after paying since I was in a rush.




Good one for Fair Go to test I think, fo rthem to test it. I think there is also the lesson to also always check the ticket to see what the end time is on the ticket that you are due back at.



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  Reply # 681554 4-Sep-2012 23:12
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mattwnz: Did the machine state on it clearly that there was a 50 cent transaction fee?


Yes it did and I presumed it would 50c to whatever amount ($8.00 in this case) I chose on the screen. From my experience, this is how most car parks operate.

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