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  #691678 26-Sep-2012 13:50
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OK, awesome so it looks like I have some options now.

Thanks for the help GZ :-)


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  #691688 26-Sep-2012 14:05
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gzt:
insane: The deposit was paid by CC .... interesting idea about getting that cancelled through the bank, sender how easily they will just do that.

Easy as. Just call them or drop into your bank and forget about the rest. It is exactly why you pay credit card fees for times like this.


I am keen to know the result of this 
I had a similar issue with Grouponnz.co.nz website, where they promised to deliver a memory foam mattress in 8 weeks, and failed to do so after 10 weeks. I logged it with the bank and the refund was processed in 24 hours to me. 



 
 
 
 


gzt

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  #691701 26-Sep-2012 14:23
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vamsee:
gzt:
insane: The deposit was paid by CC .... interesting idea about getting that cancelled through the bank, sender how easily they will just do that.

Easy as. Just call them or drop into your bank and forget about the rest. It is exactly why you pay credit card fees for times like this.


I am keen to know the result of this 
I had a similar issue with Grouponnz.co.nz website, where they promised to deliver a memory foam mattress in 8 weeks, and failed to do so after 10 weeks. I logged it with the bank and the refund was processed in 24 hours to me.

Non-delivery is always straightforward like that.

This one might have potential for back and forth - but the bank will advise about their process for that. The whole thing is a pita for the store and management so just calling and advising the manager this is where you are going if they will not see reason may get them thinking straight anyway.

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  #691743 26-Sep-2012 15:27
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I think this could simply be resolved by a face to face with the store owner/manager and the sales person together.



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  #691744 26-Sep-2012 15:29
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gzt:
vamsee:
gzt:
insane:?The deposit was paid by CC .... interesting idea about getting that cancelled through the bank, sender how easily they will just do that.

Easy as. Just call them or drop into your bank and forget about the rest. It is exactly why you pay credit card fees for times like this.


I am keen to know the result of this?
I had a similar issue with Grouponnz.co.nz website, where they promised to deliver a memory foam mattress in 8 weeks, and failed to do so after 10 weeks. I logged it with the bank and the refund was?processed?in 24 hours to me.

Non-delivery is always straightforward like that.

This one might have potential for back and forth - but the bank will advise about their process for that. The whole thing is a pita for the store and management so just calling and advising the manager this is where you are going if they will not see reason may?get them thinking straight anyway.


I called ASB, they sounded happy with what I told them and sent me the forms, told me to take them to the cleaners ;)

Might just record my conversation i have with them in a few minutes, in case it does get nasty. It's a small company, only seems to be the manager and the one sales person.

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  #691746 26-Sep-2012 15:31
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Make sure you notify them you are recording.



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  #691749 26-Sep-2012 15:37
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networkn: Make sure you notify them you are recording.


As far as I know you don't have to in NZ, as long as one person knows, ie me, it should be ok. Video may be a different story.

 
 
 
 


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  #691751 26-Sep-2012 15:48
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insane:
networkn: Make sure you notify them you are recording.


As far as I know you don't have to in NZ, as long as one person knows, ie me, it should be ok. Video may be a different story.


INAL but that is how I understood it also - as long as one of the parties knows it is being recorded then you were OK.

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  #691752 26-Sep-2012 15:52
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I think regardless, it's the right thing to do. You want them to treat you fairly. In the reverse situation you would want to be notified. Notice if you call a call centre you are notified? Even in NZ.

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  #691771 26-Sep-2012 16:18
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mattwnz: a poor saleperson who was desperate for a commission sale.


This is a really interesting thread.

Putting my store owner hat on for a minute...

The OP went to the store and took up an amount of the staff members time.  While that was happening the staff member was not serving any other customers.

Assuming the sales person was not on 'commission only' then the store owner has still had to pay the sales person for the time the OP took.

Assuming that the sales person was on 'commission only' then the sales person has been paid nothing for his time.

At the same time, the store manager/owner has earnt nothing.

So far I see nothing really new about this dynamic going back 150 years.

But today we have the internet where sellers can put up a web site using free software on a $5 a month web host, take your money in full and ship your order direct from manufacture on indent order.

As a result of the internet, store prices have dropped and expectations have changed.

Just opening the door to walk into a store, which you expect to be heated, costs the store money, more money that the 1's and 0's any amount of internet research the OP did cost the internet sellers (and he did actually pay his ISP to move the 1's and 0's).

Even the land his car was parked on has a value.  He was taking a car park that another paying customer could have been using.

How much longer will retail continue?

Frankly I wonder how much longer we'll see retail around for in its current form.

I wonder if we're heading to a time where you will just order a product like this online, pay for delivery and if you don't like it once you get it then you'll have to pay to return it in the same condition you got it to get a refund less shipping costs, or just put the goods up for resale on TradeMe.

The dynamics of the market are very different.  With public forums, we now have the ability to make contact with other people who have the same product spanning back though time.

When you go into a retail store you have to choose with care and you only have the comment of the retailer who has a clear agenda.

With web sites you can't try the product (but in the case of a bed, has anyone here ever spent the night at a retail store testing out a bed? I know I haven't).

However you can talk with other people who have also purchased the same bed and get their impressions (if they're willing to share with you). Though even that can be frought with issues, as you have no idea if those 'other posters/customers' aren't really just store staff making up accounts to tell their own story to manage the social media space (hey, I even see that happening here on GZ).

What of the OP and his $500

Well I personally think that $500 is a bit on the nose not to get some of it back.  I can see both sides here. 

If I was the store manager then I'd have been offering you some cash back, a discount on the product you did want and some store credit or telling you we'll see you in small claims.

What's the Lesson?

To me the lesson here is not to make a payment on something until you have done all your own homework/checking and are actually fully ready to make the commitment.

I fully accept that some times a retailer will be running a special which you might then miss out on if you have to come back later, even if it's only days later.  That's just tough luck.

From the retailers point of view, their objective is to get customers to stop just kicking the tyres and actually decide.  This is why they will say things like "if you make a deposit now I'll hold your order but give you x price".

I fully agree that the sales person on hearing that the OP didn't have his details sorted out should have just handed the OP a business card and suggested he get in touch once he's ready to do business and not before and should then have focused on customers who were ready to make a purchase.

Summary

I think in this case the retailer has been equally as foolish as the OP, but in the long run it's really not going to make much, if any difference because these business are going to go the way of the horse and cart.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz




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  #691775 26-Sep-2012 16:21
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Didn't need to record anything, when the guy saw all three of us and listened to what we had to say he apologized and backed down. I didn't walk out with cash, but the promise of a cheque this week so we'll see how that goes.

He explained many customers try pull the same move after finding items cheaper elsewhere which I can understand.

So in the end, a storm in a teacup

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  #691778 26-Sep-2012 16:25
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insane: Didn't need to record anything, when the guy saw all three of us and listened to what we had to say he apologized and backed down. I didn't walk out with cash, but the promise of a cheque this week so we'll see how that goes.

He explained many customers try pull the same move after finding items cheaper elsewhere which I can understand.

So in the end, a storm in a teacup


Agreed. Glad it worked out. 

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  #691780 26-Sep-2012 16:30
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DonGould:Assuming the sales person was not on 'commission only' then the store owner has still had to pay the sales person for the time the OP took.

Assuming that the sales person was on 'commission only' then the sales person has been paid nothing for his time.

At the same time, the store manager/owner has earnt nothing.

So far I see nothing really new about this dynamic going back 150 years.
Just opening the door to walk into a store, which you expect to be heated, costs the store money, more money that the 1's and 0's any amount of internet research the OP did cost the internet sellers (and he did actually pay his ISP to move the 1's and 0's).

Even the land his car was parked on has a value.? He was taking a car park that another paying customer could have been using.


I would expect salespeople would be paid a base rate, and then earn commission on top of that. NZ does havea minium hourly wage, so I would expect them to be paid at least that. Personally I am not a fan of commission sales like that, as it results in pushy salespeople who are desperate to get a sale. I am more of a fan of everyone being rewarded for making sales as a team.

Most of the store costs are fixed costs whether they get zero customers in the store or 100. The time a sales person spends on a customer may not initially result in a sale. But if the customer has a good experience, they may come back in the future, or they may tell their friends about it, so it is a form of marketing, and it is about get the word out there.

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  #691794 26-Sep-2012 16:36
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insane: Didn't need to record anything, when the guy saw all three of us and listened to what we had to say he apologized and backed down. I didn't walk out with cash, but the promise of a cheque this week so we'll see how that goes.

He explained many customers try pull the same move after finding items cheaper elsewhere which I can understand.

So in the end, a storm in a teacup


It is not over till the fat lady sing





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  #691796 26-Sep-2012 16:38
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insane: Didn't need to record anything, when the guy saw all three of us and listened to what we had to say he apologized and backed down. I didn't walk out with cash, but the promise of a cheque this week so we'll see how that goes.

He explained many customers try pull the same move after finding items cheaper elsewhere which I can understand.

So in the end, a storm in a teacup


Good to hear. Strange that they didn't just reverse the credit card, as if they send you a check, I presume they will need to pay the credit card fees (around 2-3%). Hope you get the check promptly and don't have to chase it up.

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