Can I please have a refund?

Forums › Off topic › Can I please have a refund?

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DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#691807 26-Sep-2012 16:56

mattwnz: The time a sales person spends on a customer may not initially result in a sale. But if the customer has a good experience, they may come back in the future, or they may tell their friends about it, so it is a form of marketing, and it is about get the word out there.

When I started in retail 28 years ago, I'd have to totally agree with you.

In my area there were 4 or 5 stores selling the same sorts of things, but only two or 3 main ones and it didn't really matter if the customer went to one of the other stores a week later and just purchased of them.

We would get our fill of customers, they had seen first, coming to see us.

But this game has changed.

Today customers will head into a store to look at the goods, talk with someone to ask a few questions they weren't sure about from what they'd read, and then head back to their web browser to make a purchase.

I suspect this is why many of the major retailers now have really great web sites so they can pick up their share of that business.

But I have to disagree with you about the value of that in store experience with customers coming back.

Having said that, I did just spend $20 more purchasing something in Toy World the other day than I could have paid ordering the exact same product from a US web site.

I paid the difference because I want my child to be able to enjoy the magic of a toy store next year and figure that if I don't support the local retailer then they won't be there.

It puts real price pressure on though which is not good for the consumer in the long term because the level of service they can expect will drop, just look at the problems with getting service from telco's and ISPs.

D

Ps: OP, glad to hear you got a good outcome, lucky :)

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MaxLV

656 posts

Ultimate Geek

#691911 26-Sep-2012 21:06

insane:
sleemanj: From reading the thread, I think it went something like this

"I like the bed, I'm not sure about the cabinet"
"you can put a deposit on the cabinet and if you find it won't fit after measuring we will refund it"
"no that's ok, I'll just take the bed for now, here's a deposit I'll pay the rest when it's here"

If that's about right, then I'd say that they are not obligated to refund you, the refund was offered for the cabinet.

If you took it to the dt, the outcome wouldn't be certain either way.

But the business is stupid, they should just refund you out of goodwill.

I'm sure they would like it to have been like that, but it wasn't. Luckily I wasn't there alone, had my wife and sister in law with me at the time, who all heard the full conversation.

The deposit was paid by CC .... interesting idea about getting that cancelled through the bank, sender how easily they will just do that.

The three of us are going back there today to fight this out..... I might just update you on how we get along. Knowing my wife and sister in law, it will either end well or on the news.

I may be wrong, but if you haven't actually received the goods (bed) then surely under the CGG you are entitled to change you mind and ask for your deposit back.

And if they haven't supplied the bed then they have no right to keep any money you have given them.

I believe they can only refuse a refund once you have received the goods and try to return them because you have changed your mind. (there has to be something wrong with the goods, or they're not fit for the purpose, Not sure if a room size counts here)

BTW this is why I most often, refuse to pay a deposit to ANY retailer that says the can order one for me, but they require a deposit.

I tell them I have the full amount here now to purchase the item now, when you can give me that item, I will give you the money.

If you don't have the item now, then call me when you do, if you want the sale.

It's surprising how many retailers that say a deposit is required suddenly find they can order the item, and I can pay for it in full when I pick it up.

scuwp

3761 posts

Uber Geek

#691914 26-Sep-2012 21:12

IANAL but if you order an item I believe you have entered into a contract to purchase it, unless a 'no obligation' clause is agreed to. You can't then change your mind and not buy it, that would be breaching your contract, and the shop can hold you to account for their loss. I think deposits are just a way to ensure that you are serious customer and not just pulling their chain.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity - Robert J Hanlon

Elpie

1304 posts

Uber Geek

#691926 26-Sep-2012 21:49

DonGould:
mattwnz: The time a sales person spends on a customer may not initially result in a sale. But if the customer has a good experience, they may come back in the future, or they may tell their friends about it, so it is a form of marketing, and it is about get the word out there.

When I started in retail 28 years ago, I'd have to totally agree with you.

In my area there were 4 or 5 stores selling the same sorts of things, but only two or 3 main ones and it didn't really matter if the customer went to one of the other stores a week later and just purchased of them.

We would get our fill of customers, they had seen first, coming to see us.

But this game has changed.

Today customers will head into a store to look at the goods, talk with someone to ask a few questions they weren't sure about from what they'd read, and then head back to their web browser to make a purchase.

I suspect this is why many of the major retailers now have really great web sites so they can pick up their share of that business.

But I have to disagree with you about the value of that in store experience with customers coming back.

That doesn't hold true for me. All major purchases (with the exception of electronics, usually) are made in stores. A good experience has me going back to the same stores BUT I expect prices to be competitive. I bargain on everything I buy and always have done so and have yet to meet a retailer that won't negotiate on price.

For something like a bed or major appliance I never consider buying online although I do my research and get the pricing online before going to a store. There is no need to ask the sales people any questions beyond asking what their best price is.

DivideByZero

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#693474 29-Sep-2012 20:14

A few of you need to read the CGA.

It clearly states that a retailer doesn't have to give you a refund (unless it was part of the contract at the time of sale).

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/shopping/change-of-mind-refund
http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/consumer-guarantees-act/your-questions-answered
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/latest/whole.html - if you can be bothered reading the whole Act :)

The good news here (despite some doubting the OP wasn't entitled to a refund), is that clearly the law was on his side and common sense prevailed.

Well done to the OP for sticking to your guns and seeing it through.

Paying a deposit isn't an issue - you are still under no legal obligation in purchasing goods as long as you get it in writing (or recorded) that the sales person wont order the goods until further instruction as this will form part of the contract.

mattwnz

19378 posts

Uber Geek

#693492 29-Sep-2012 22:24

DivideByZero: A few of you need to read the CGA.

It clearly states that a retailer?doesn't?have to give you a refund (unless it was part of the contract at the time of sale).

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/shopping/change-of-mind-refund
http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/consumer-guarantees-act/your-questions-answered
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/latest/whole.html?- if you can be bothered reading the whole Act :)

The good news here (despite some doubting the OP?wasn't?entitled?to a refund), is that clearly the law was on his side and common sense prevailed.

Well done to the OP for sticking to your guns and seeing it through.

Paying a deposit?isn't?an issue - you are still under no legal obligation in?purchasing?goods as long as you get it in writing (or recorded) that the sales person wont order the goods?until?further?instruction as this will form part of the contract.

The contract though was for refund in the OPs first post, as the saleperson verbally said they would provide a refund of the deposit if after they had measured up, they changed their mind. A verbal contract/agreement is still a contract. Sales people will sometimes say anything to make a sale.

DivideByZero

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#693513 29-Sep-2012 23:31

mattwnz:The contract though was for refund in the OPs first post, as the saleperson verbally said they would provide a refund of the deposit if after they had measured up, they changed their mind. A verbal contract/agreement is still a contract. Sales people will sometimes say anything to make a sale.

So your agreeing with me? - excellent!!! Glad we are on the same page! ;)

mattwnz

19378 posts

Uber Geek

#693517 29-Sep-2012 23:48

DivideByZero:
mattwnz:The contract though was for refund in the OPs first post, as the saleperson verbally said they would provide a refund of the deposit if after they had measured up, they changed their mind. A verbal contract/agreement is still a contract. Sales people will sometimes say anything to make a sale.

So your agreeing with me? - excellent!!!? Glad we are on the same page!? ;)

Sort of. The OP didn't get it in writing, nor recorded what they said. You don't need to get a verbal contract recorded for it to be enforceable, and recording every conversation you have isn't practical. The difficulty though is proving it if the salesperson negated the verbal contract, but a witness is usually enough.

DivideByZero

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#693565 30-Sep-2012 10:41

mattwnz: Sort of. The OP didn't get it in writing, nor recorded what they said. You don't need to get a verbal contract recorded for it to be enforceable, and recording every conversation you have isn't practical. The difficulty though is proving it if the salesperson negated the verbal contract, but a witness is usually enough.

Hence my recommendation for getting in in writing.

Kyanar

3874 posts

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#693566 30-Sep-2012 10:55

mattwnz:
insane: Didn't need to record anything, when the guy saw all three of us and listened to what we had to say he apologized and backed down. I didn't walk out with cash, but the promise of a cheque this week so we'll see how that goes.

He explained many customers try pull the same move after finding items cheaper elsewhere which I can understand.

So in the end, a storm in a teacup

Good to hear. Strange that they didn't just reverse the credit card, as if they send you a check, I presume they will need to pay the credit card fees (around 2-3%). Hope you get the check promptly and don't have to chase it up.

Strange indeed. And all the collateral that comes with your credit card processing contract actually says never to do this - always refund to the original card (it's for CC fraud/money laundering prevention reasons OTOH).

But good work on getting it all sorted.

insane

3170 posts

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#693578 30-Sep-2012 12:06

Haven't received the cheque yet.... l'm going to be rather upset if I have to follow up with them about it though

I'll post here again when it arrives

One thing that has come across my mind is how many other people have been duped by similar practice.

gzt

15196 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#693587 30-Sep-2012 12:50

Just don't let them stuff around until the time you can do credit card reversal expires. Different for each bank.

insane

3170 posts

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#696475 4-Oct-2012 22:13

Cheque arrived and was banked today :-)

grant_k

3539 posts

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#696487 4-Oct-2012 22:26

insane: Cheque arrived and was banked today :-)

Great to hear you got there in the end. So much unnecessary stress and hassle though, which could so easily have been avoided if they had simply done the right thing in the beginning.

UrbanMyth

122 posts

Master Geek

#697042 6-Oct-2012 08:50

Lets hope the cheque doesn't bounce ...

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