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447 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 110464 9-Oct-2012 18:42
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Hi All,

A couple of minutes of your time if I could please.

I'm on a committee for a reasonably large volunteer organisation & I'm needing to be pointed in the right direction. Our committee looks after the development of our members throughout the region (offer courses, camps & qualifications amongst other things). One of the problems we have is getting what is available out to our members.

What I'm looking into is how we could do something similar to what Kiwibank have done with their account selection tools, to help our members find courses that might be of interest to them & find out more about them. Something interactive that can ask a few questions about what courses they have been on, what interests them & give them a couple of options for what they might like to do next based on this. I can see two places where this could be used, our website & our facebook page. We have a database of our members with their contact details/qualifications on, individual clubs can log in and manage their own members. I have a bit of a pipe dream with somehow integrating the database with peoples facebook accounts to send them suggestions & reminders about qualifications that are going to expire, but that would be in the distant future and/or probably out of our price range.

1) What kind of person do I need to talk to about this, is it an app developer? No doubt we would have someone in the organisation that would have the skills, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for to start with.

2) What information should I gather before I talk to this person to help them understand what I'm trying to do?

3) Is there anything else that you think I should know about/ be aware of or is there a better way for to get this information across?

I'm just trying to get a grasp of what's going to be involved & how much something like this would cost before I take it any further, but if you could set me straight, it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.



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3892 posts

Uber Geek


  # 698653 9-Oct-2012 19:13
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That Kiwi Bank application would have cost them $100k to develop, and been developed by a team of people who are already working with the existing platform. Stuff like that is much cheaper to develop in house when you've got a good team who work well together to innovate. If you have to pull a fresh team together to do concept work from scratch then it gets more expensive.

I'd say you've proposed 6 months work and a developer/project manager with the skills you're looking for will cost you at least $100k/pa on contract if you want to get a good result.





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447 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 698672 9-Oct-2012 19:58
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Back to the drawing board then I guess :-)

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 698676 9-Oct-2012 20:06
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I wouldn't be too discouraged about this. its not technically difficult to do, in fact it might make a good project for someone. None of it is beyond the ability of a hobbiest programmer. I might be able to find someone for you.



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Ultimate Geek


  # 698684 9-Oct-2012 20:10
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It was that or I look at approaching a university to see if they would do it for a project/assignment.

I guess my questions still stand.

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Uber Geek


  # 698720 9-Oct-2012 21:09
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nickd: It was that or I look at approaching a university to see if they would do it for a project/assignment.

I guess my questions still stand.


You can do that.  Most polytechs and unis will have projects their 3rd year students have to do. 

The issue is what you can offer the student in terms of value.

You also really need to know something about the space so you can manage the project or have someone who can.

You run the risk of ending up with something important to you that they then won't support once the project is done and if you don't know what you're doing, you have no idea about the quality of the system.

I also think you need to put this into perspective, work the problems and build a proper business case to fund it to a sensible level.

You're talking about training, so I assume the people doing the teaching are getting paid, so why shouldn't the team bringing them the customers?

Training delivers return.  People with skills normally want to use them (not always, but in most cases).  So if you're a credible organisation then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to lobby to get some sensible funding for this sort of project.








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gzt

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Uber Geek


  # 698723 9-Oct-2012 21:13
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You could start by finding out about the history of the existing application. That may lead you directly to the right person.

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  # 698750 9-Oct-2012 21:44
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DonGould: That Kiwi Bank application would have cost them $100k to develop


Disagree. Looks very straight forward. Would not have been a major project, probably doesn't even talk to their back end.

Edit: Yes, it is very straight forward/simple, a bit of javascript to give weight to what you have chosen on the form, then display a different DIV of static content based on your score. The source is all there in the page.




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Uber Geek


  # 698754 9-Oct-2012 21:50
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RedJungle:
DonGould: That Kiwi Bank application would have cost them $100k to develop


Disagree. Looks very straight forward. Would not have been a major project, probably doesn't even talk to their back end.

Edit: Yes, it is very straight forward/simple, a bit of javascript to weight what you have chosen, then display a different DIV of static content based on your score.


Yeah I was pretty confused about Don's statement.

Looks like a linked Javascript form of which their are lots of pre-built JQuery plugins you could use.

I would allow 1-2 days for a designs and 3-5 days for a dev to make it max.
I would imagine a volunteer in your organisation would be happy to do it in their spare time.


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  # 698756 9-Oct-2012 21:56
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RedJungle:
DonGould: That Kiwi Bank application would have cost them $100k to develop


Disagree. Looks very straight forward. Would not have been a major project, probably doesn't even talk to their back end.

Edit: Yes, it is very straight forward/simple, a bit of javascript to give weight what you have chosen on the form, then display a different DIV of static content based on your score. The source is all there in the page.


Ya, you're right, I've over stated that a bit.

I was really trying to make the point that applications like this aren't always straight forward.

After having a bit of a play, that Kiwibank app is obviously based on a limited set of dynamics.

I put a higher price on it because I was also thinking about the time of all the different stakeholders that it would normally take to put such things together in a bank.

That's still $10,000 of development work if the bank had to bring in contractors, which yes I accept is a factor of 10, I was really wanting to draw the OP out about budget they've got in mind.

In a week of 'Wheedle, and LST" failures, I'm kinda keen not to go about understating stuff and setting expectations in the market place that this sort of stuff can just be whipped up safely by a school kid.






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  # 698758 9-Oct-2012 21:58
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DonGould:
That's still $10,000 of development work if the bank had to bring in contractors


No, its really not.




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  # 698760 9-Oct-2012 22:02
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RedJungle:
DonGould:
That's still $10,000 of development work if the bank had to bring in contractors


No, its really not.


Cool.  What do you think that work is worth?





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  # 698761 9-Oct-2012 22:05
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Probably about half that. Depending on the contractor rate. I'd suggest there is less than 40 hours work there. Probably less than 20 for a good developer.




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  # 698766 9-Oct-2012 22:15
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RedJungle: Probably about half that. Depending on the contractor rate. I'd suggest there is less than 40 hours work there. Probably less than 20 for a good developer.


Yip, I think you're right.  Since reading your comments I've been off and had a closer look at that code as suggested.  It does look more like a weeks work depending on how much of the idea he had to nut out from scratch.

I confess, I just didn't look at it that closely.

I still don't think that taking data from legacy in house databases then integrating with facebook etc is something that should be suggested as a quick and simple job.

I also think it's something that should be mapped out properly and funded properly rather than just looking for a kid to whack something together.

Again, in a week where 'local projects' are just being pushed to India, I think we should be thinking about these things and not setting expectations that stuff can just be done for nicks all the time.






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  # 698880 10-Oct-2012 09:27
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DonGould: That Kiwi Bank application would have cost them $100k to develop, and been developed by a team of people who are already working with the existing platform. Stuff like that is much cheaper to develop in house when you've got a good team who work well together to innovate. If you have to pull a fresh team together to do concept work from scratch then it gets more expensive.

I'd say you've proposed 6 months work and a developer/project manager with the skills you're looking for will cost you at least $100k/pa on contract if you want to get a good result.



I'm sorry Don but this is the most half thought out response I've ever seen around here.

Saying later "I was really trying to make the point that applications like this aren't always straight forward." doesn't help either. There was no point to be made. The OP asked a technical question not a philosophical discussion about technical specification and design.

The first reply was dangerous and could scare the OP away from doing something worthy for his business.

That's not cool.








447 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 701062 14-Oct-2012 18:02
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Thanks for your input guys. I've been having a bit of a play round with the source code from the Kiwibank site, I just get stuck when it comes to the calculation of which accounts are right for you. No doubt I'll figure it out when I have some spare time. I just need a massive sheet of paper to track where things are going...

Just to clarify things:
If I was to send out an email to the wider membership, who am I asking for? Does the person who would do this kind of thing for a living have a specific title?

@gzt: Good idea, it's probably a wise idea to look into that first before I start trying to track down others.

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