Harvey Norman...It's Coming...

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19387 posts

Uber Geek

#719481 19-Nov-2012 13:23

Gooseybhai: I know amex and diners have the most highest and ridicululous rates...I think somewhere between 6% and 15% of the transaction total.

Really 6-15%! No wonder not many places accept them.

MightyApe

You will find anything you want at MightyApe (affiliate link).

0verdose05

102 posts

Master Geek

#719617 19-Nov-2012 16:45

NonprayingMantis:
richms: Because of that BS law about offering interest free etc it makes it futile to go shopping when they have the interst free promotions on. I really wish that they would butt out of that area so much.

it’s bizarre, but wen I worked retailing brown/white goods in the uk many years ago the situation was actually the opposite. We got kickbacks from the finance company when people took interest free so if so we actually preferred for people to use that method of payment. It was even worth our while giving a modest discount if people chose that method of payment over cash.

With a cash payment there was quite a bit of admin cost involved – counting it, banking it etc so it was pretty funny people asking for a cash discount as if we were a plumber who can keep the sale of the books or something.

for some reason the situation seems to be reversed over here. Not entirely sure why that is.

It's because the salesperson 'pays' for the interest free period over here. The longer the term the more profit is taken from the sales person which can be from <1% up to 18-20%.

rhysb

435 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#719652 19-Nov-2012 18:09

Gooseybhai: I know amex and diners have the most highest and ridicululous rates...I think somewhere between 6% and 15% of the transaction total.

I don't know where you're getting those figures from, but I know we pay less than 3% for Amex and half that for visa. I imagine a large chain like HN would have negotiated even less.

Dunnersfella

4063 posts

Uber Geek

#720057 20-Nov-2012 13:12

dickytim:

I don't think the situation is reversed here at all, I think it is more the retailers are giving the perception that it is different here.

You are incorrect.
It costs retailers to offer interest free.
If there WAS a kickback, then sales people would obviously be trying to push people into interest free deals... more so than warranties etc.

And whoever took a picture of a product in order to get the SAME price and FlyBuys... geez, what a waste of time. FlyBuys = the biggest con ever. Swapping your purchasing details / privacy in exchange for crap kitchenware or a bottom of the line DVD player...
Why not push for a lower price at the first retailer?

mattwnz

19387 posts

Uber Geek

#720076 20-Nov-2012 13:50

Dunnersfella:
dickytim:

I don't think the situation is reversed here at all, I think it is more the retailers are giving the perception that it is different here.

You are incorrect.
It costs retailers to offer interest free.
If there WAS a kickback, then sales people would obviously be trying to push people into interest free deals... more so than warranties etc.

And whoever took a picture of a product in order to get the SAME price and FlyBuys... geez, what a waste of time. FlyBuys = the biggest con ever. Swapping your purchasing details / privacy in exchange for crap kitchenware or a bottom of the line DVD player...
Why not push for a lower price at the first retailer?

I thought they got a commission, as I recall someone telling me that, and that cash is no longer king when buying appliances due to these finanace deals.Apparently if you try to do for an interest free loan, the thing to do is to ask them what the best price they can do for cash is, and apparently they have to honour that for a loan deal too. Not sure how true that is though.

With flybuys, if NL are giving you the lowest price you could get anywhere anyway, then you may as well get the flybuys for free too, especially if you already get them with things like insurance. I would never use then for buying appliances, or things that are often discounted anyway, as there are far better uses for fly buys points.

Dunnersfella

4063 posts

Uber Geek

#720117 20-Nov-2012 14:40

Unfortunately, whoever told you this was incorrect.
Finance deals will cost the retailer, making them less inclined to sell you the product for the lowest price possible.
Lying to a sales person to get a cheap cash / credit card price, then demanding the biggest interest free deal is possible. Of course, they could lie to you and put the price up... The latter is illegal, the former is not.
Both are unethical.
Your call I suppose.
I don't buy on finance, and as I am seldom in a rush to buy the latest gadget, I will wait until a price drop that I see as being acceptable in the market place.

mattwnz

19387 posts

Uber Geek

#720129 20-Nov-2012 15:05

Dunnersfella: Unfortunately, whoever told you this was incorrect.
Finance deals will cost the retailer, making them less inclined to sell you the product for the lowest price possible.
Lying to a sales person to get a cheap cash / credit card price, then demanding the biggest interest free deal is possible. Of course, they could lie to you and put the price up... The latter is illegal, the former is not.
Both are unethical.
Your call I suppose.
I don't buy on finance, and as I am seldom in a rush to buy the latest gadget, I will wait until a price drop that I see as being acceptable in the market place.

I never buy on hire purchase myself. But I have noticed that with these hire purchase deals, that cash isn't as much of a king as it once was. I don't think all this borrowing to buy consumer goods is good for the economy, as we all end up paying for it in the end. Loans are fine for things like houses which are assets (although probably not at the current levels in AUckland), but not so good when buying things that are worthless after a few years such as a tv.

Dunnersfella

4063 posts

Uber Geek

#720186 20-Nov-2012 16:05

Correct - unless you're borrowing in the short term in order to increase your credit limit, all so you CAN purchase a house... but yeah, I wouldn't recommend someone financing a TV on credit, it'll be worth 30 cents in 1.5 years time!

Archer77

131 posts

Master Geek

#720208 20-Nov-2012 16:37

mattwnz: I thought they got a commission, as I recall someone telling me that, and that cash is no longer king when buying appliances due to these finanace deals.Apparently if you try to do for an interest free loan, the thing to do is to ask them what the best price they can do for cash is, and apparently they have to honour that for a loan deal too. Not sure how true that is though.

With flybuys, if NL are giving you the lowest price you could get anywhere anyway, then you may as well get the flybuys for free too, especially if you already get them with things like insurance. I would never use then for buying appliances, or things that are often discounted anyway, as there are far better uses for fly buys points.

You are quite right that whatever price the store is willing to do for cash, they have to honour that price for interest free deals. Hill & Stewart were prosecuted for offering a cheaper cash rate to an undercover shopper a few years ago before they closed up. It's surprising how many people don't know this.

I also agree with you re flybuys - if it's a choice between paying the same price and getting points or no points, you might as well get the points. And while there can be privacy issues with rewards cards, it would be a frustrating life if you never ordered a pizza over the phone, couldn't get onecard discounts, never used a fuel card etc all because that information might be shared.

mattwnz

19387 posts

Uber Geek

#720221 20-Nov-2012 16:59

Archer77:
mattwnz: I thought they got a commission, as I recall someone telling me that, and that cash is no longer king when buying appliances due to these finanace deals.Apparently if you try to do for an interest free loan, the thing to do is to ask them what the best price they can do for cash is, and apparently they have to honour that for a loan deal too. Not sure how true that is though.

With flybuys, if NL are giving you the lowest price you could get anywhere anyway, then you may as well get the flybuys for free too, especially if you already get them with things like insurance. I would never use then for buying appliances, or things that are often discounted anyway, as there are far better uses for fly buys points.

You are quite right that whatever price the store is willing to do for cash, they have to honour that price for interest free deals. Hill & Stewart were prosecuted for offering a cheaper cash rate to an undercover shopper a few years ago before they closed up. It's surprising how many people don't know this.

I also agree with you re flybuys - if it's a choice between paying the same price and getting points or no points, you might as well get the points. And while there can be privacy issues with rewards cards, it would be a frustrating life if you never ordered a pizza over the phone, couldn't get onecard discounts, never used a fuel card etc all because that information might be shared.

Yes I recall hearing something about that.

If people really cared about privacy, they wouldn't use google, or facebook for that matter. Considering half of NZ have signed their life to facebook, I don't think too many people have that many concerns. Flybuys has been around for many years, and is quite a trusted organisation, I can't recall any privacy issues with them.

Kyanar

3877 posts

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#720335 20-Nov-2012 20:24

Gooseybhai:
You will note credit card merchants charge extra on top of the eftpos merchant fees e.g. visa/amex/diners. I know amex and diners have the most highest and ridicululous rates...I think somewhere between 6% and 15% of the transaction total.

Nowhere near those figures. 3% is what I'm paying for AMEX, and 2% (approx) for Visa and MasterCard. There's no way Harvey Norman is paying 6.

JimmyH

2820 posts

Uber Geek

#720339 20-Nov-2012 20:27

mattwnz:
I never buy on hire purchase myself. But I have noticed that with these hire purchase deals, that cash isn't as much of a king as it once was. I don't think all this borrowing to buy consumer goods is good for the economy, as we all end up paying for it in the end. Loans are fine for things like houses which are assets (although probably not at the current levels in AUckland), but not so good when buying things that are worthless after a few years such as a tv.

I don't see how we *all* end up paying for it in the end - but the purchaser certainly does. I agree with your sentiment though - if it's not to build up a long-term asset or absolutely essential then borrowing to pay for something is questionable. Borrowing for consumer goods is (mostly) insane, and makes you worse off in the long run. If it's not essential and you can't pay cash, then you can't afford it. I never buy on finance or HP.

More people need to accept that it's not sensible to expect to leave home and immediately sustain the standard of household possessions that they are used to and that their parents probably spent 20-30 years working to build up to. A few years with basic possessions and careful budgeting is worth it in the long-run if it means that they can clear debts and start to accumulate a house deposit etc.

Edit: Grammar.

itxtme

2052 posts

Uber Geek

#720465 21-Nov-2012 00:47

Dunnersfella: Unfortunately, whoever told you this was incorrect.
Lying to a sales person to get a cheap cash / credit card price, then demanding the biggest interest free deal is possible. Of course, they could lie to you and put the price up... The latter is illegal, the former is not.
Both are unethical.
Your call I suppose.
.

I completely disagree, by offering interest free deals they MUST be willing to sell it at the cash price otherwise they are simply dressing mutton up as lamb. If they charge more for the finance deal then they are charging you for the interest free, which means that it is not "interest free" making the sale non compliant with the fair trading act. I get the feeling you think they should give a better deal on cash, if they want to do that they must then advertise the deal as low interest 2% or whatever that difference is. They do not, so then they are fair game!

dickytim

2514 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#720485 21-Nov-2012 07:01

itxtme:
Dunnersfella: Unfortunately, whoever told you this was incorrect.
Lying to a sales person to get a cheap cash / credit card price, then demanding the biggest interest free deal is possible. Of course, they could lie to you and put the price up... The latter is illegal, the former is not.
Both are unethical.
Your call I suppose.
.

I completely disagree, by offering interest free deals they MUST be willing to sell it at the cash price otherwise they are simply dressing mutton up as lamb. If they charge more for the finance deal then they are charging you for the interest free, which means that it is not "interest free" making the sale non compliant with the fair trading act. I get the feeling you think they should give a better deal on cash, if they want to do that they must then advertise the deal as low interest 2% or whatever that difference is. They do not, so then they are fair game!

Interesting argument but they charge fees on interest free, so can we all take them to the commerce commission as that is like interest???

itxtme

2052 posts

Uber Geek

#720575 21-Nov-2012 09:37

dickytim:
itxtme:
Dunnersfella: Unfortunately, whoever told you this was incorrect.
Lying to a sales person to get a cheap cash / credit card price, then demanding the biggest interest free deal is possible. Of course, they could lie to you and put the price up... The latter is illegal, the former is not.
Both are unethical.
Your call I suppose.
.

I completely disagree, by offering interest free deals they MUST be willing to sell it at the cash price otherwise they are simply dressing mutton up as lamb. If they charge more for the finance deal then they are charging you for the interest free, which means that it is not "interest free" making the sale non compliant with the fair trading act. I get the feeling you think they should give a better deal on cash, if they want to do that they must then advertise the deal as low interest 2% or whatever that difference is. They do not, so then they are fair game!

Interesting argument but they charge fees on interest free, so can we all take them to the commerce commission as that is like interest???

The commission is happy for fees as long as they adequately advertised, hence why you always here the line "$49 establishment fee applies"

From Comcom

Businesses who make 'interest free' offers are unlikely to breach the Fair Trading Act just because they charge legitimate establishment and credit fees that comply with the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act. This is because
establishment and credit fees are not considered to be interest under the Act. However, any establishment or credit fee the consumer has to pay must be clearly and adequately disclosed to them and not hidden in the fine print.

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