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  Reply # 744454 14-Jan-2013 11:59
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ajobbins: 

Don't agree with that.


Well, take it up with the NZTA, because that's how it is.  Maybe you just got off an easy tester.

The full test was 1 hour, it's now 30 minutes (20 minutes driving).
The restricted test was 30 minutes it's now 1 hour (45 minutes driving).

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/photo/new-tests.html

The failure rate for restricted tests since the change has skyrocketed.  I don't know what the rate for full licence failures is now, but as I say, would be really interesting to find out.




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  Reply # 744487 14-Jan-2013 13:01
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turnin: [snip]Driving requires 100% concentration 100% of the time, [snip]


No it doesn't.

Pithy comment? Yes. Accurate? Nope.

Cheers - N

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 744492 14-Jan-2013 13:03
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gzt:
Hobchild: Well as I'm one of the very people that this article was talking about I feel I have to add my two cents.

For the record: Obtained learners licence in 1998 and sat on it for seven years before obtaining restricted in 2005. Still on my restricted today.

Reason for not sitting my full: Pure laziness.

That is a long time. Do you comply with the conditions all the time?


Honestly. Not all of the time, every few months I might go to a movie that will finish after 10pm, the passengers thing is not a big deal for me because all of my friends are on their full.

gzt

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  Reply # 744503 14-Jan-2013 13:23
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I appreciate your honesty. Whether you like it or not are the poster boy for why they are making this change lol ; ).

Sooner or later you will get random stopped at a checkpoint - ie; nothing to do with your driving - then you will be fined. My guess is many of the stats represent exactly this. You might as well have put that towards your full license in the first place. Go get it done.

I'm still not personally convinced of the need for a change in the law until I see a good argument in stats for predicted drop in road toll/accident rate. It is unusual to make this kind of change without providing that information. My guess is the change will lead to more completely unlicensed drivers than otherwise the case due to drop out while still owning a car.

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  Reply # 744504 14-Jan-2013 13:28
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Talkiet:
turnin: [snip]Driving requires 100% concentration 100% of the time, [snip]


No it doesn't.

Pithy comment? Yes. Accurate? Nope.

Cheers - N


Driving properly does !

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  Reply # 744510 14-Jan-2013 13:34
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turnin:
Talkiet:
turnin: [snip]Driving requires 100% concentration 100% of the time, [snip]


No it doesn't.

Pithy comment? Yes. Accurate? Nope.

Cheers - N


Driving properly does !


I assert you are wrong. If you have to concentrate 100% on driving, then none of the components of driving have become second nature.

If it were actually true the driving properly REQUIRED 100% concentration, 100% of the time, then cars wouldn't have stereos (can't listen to anything, let alone change the controls!), you wouldn't be allowed to talk to passengers, Aircon controls would be locked while the car was in motion etc.

I'd agree that driving requires concentration, but nothing requires 100% concentration. That's just meaningless hyperbole.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 744517 14-Jan-2013 13:41
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Talkiet:
turnin:
Talkiet:
turnin: [snip]Driving requires 100% concentration 100% of the time, [snip]


No it doesn't.

Pithy comment? Yes. Accurate? Nope.

Cheers - N


Driving properly does !


I assert you are wrong. If you have to concentrate 100% on driving, then none of the components of driving have become second nature.

If it were actually true the driving properly REQUIRED 100% concentration, 100% of the time, then cars wouldn't have stereos (can't listen to anything, let alone change the controls!), you wouldn't be allowed to talk to passengers, Aircon controls would be locked while the car was in motion etc.

I'd agree that driving requires concentration, but nothing requires 100% concentration. That's just meaningless hyperbole.

Cheers - N



second nature is a term used to describe one's familiarity with something.
driving on a public road is an incredible sporadic activity where human psychology and physics ( both misunderstood by many) are in a state of constant change. Your sence of familiarity to the tast won't assist you in detecting a change.
The aircon, stereo and passengers won't either.
Ask any motorsport competitor how much attention they pay

you didn't learn much from that track day you did, did you ?

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  Reply # 744523 14-Jan-2013 13:47
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turnin:[snip]
you didn't learn much from that track day you did, did you ?


No actually, I had already learnt it from many years in motorsport myself - the track day was just a heap of fun. I was taught to drive by a multiple times NZ motorkhana (autotest/gymkhana) champion and have myself placed in the top 3 at nationals several times. Other relevant information was picked up at Otago Uni during my degree in Psychology.

I've also had a chance to see firsthand how not concentrating "100%" on driving works for me over the last 25 years with an accident free driving record.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 744531 14-Jan-2013 14:01
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Well, I've been a competitor too, several rally championships and for that matter I've won several motorkhanas in far bigger cars, and divisional titles in rallies, and spent many years teaching the art to thousands of drivers.
Other than freaks of nature like rocks falling on cars, every crash is as a result of a lack of perception and over reaction due to the subsequent adrenalin. All of these facets stem from concentration or the absence of it.




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  Reply # 744562 14-Jan-2013 14:32
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sleemanj:
ajobbins: 

Don't agree with that.


Well, take it up with the NZTA, because that's how it is.  Maybe you just got off an easy tester.

The full test was 1 hour, it's now 30 minutes (20 minutes driving).
The restricted test was 30 minutes it's now 1 hour (45 minutes driving).

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/photo/new-tests.html

The failure rate for restricted tests since the change has skyrocketed.  I don't know what the rate for full licence failures is now, but as I say, would be really interesting to find out.


The previous tests in the 90's, were that you didn't actually need to do anything to move onto your full license from the restricted. The restricted back then was a half hour test, and there was none of this'describing what you see' nonsence. I failed my first time, and apparently in my area most people did fail their first time, as it was run by the police, and they were very strict. You just applied for the fullafter a period of time, I think 18 months, or 9 months if you did a defensive driving course.
But I would say NZ drivers are worse now than ever, especially young drivers I have seen. A family member was involved in a major crash just a week ago, and it was allegedly due to a teenage female driver coming out of a side road onto a main road without stopping or giving way and hitting them side on. Luckily noone was majorly injured but it wrote off the car. Can't comment on what was the cause, but it does appear that many of the crashes that occur are still with the younger driver age group.
I think moving the age up to 18 could be an idea as most countries in the world have it at around this level. NZ is one of the few countries that still has it as low as 16.  Perhaps in some rural areas there could be an exception on a case by case basis.

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  Reply # 744830 15-Jan-2013 00:09
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As for ID - a birth certificate is not an accepted form of ID by many. It's also only a copy of the original which is always kept by Internal Affairs. A firearms license is not accepted ID in Europe, the US, Canada, or Australia (and probably elsewhere). The 18+ card is pretty much ignored in NZ and is not accepted as ID outside NZ at all. A passport is, and driver's license is also usually accepted. 

Even though I see a legitimate use of driver's licenses for ID purposes, I'd hate to see NZ bring in any form of national ID card. *shudder*

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  Reply # 749695 23-Jan-2013 16:40
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I see a lot of support for this, and to be honest, I do support it in a lot of ways. I've been on my learner's a long time. I've been driving my whole life, grew up on a farm driving all sorts of things. I've driven pretty much all common construction machinery, half a dozen boats, trains, a hovercraft, half a dozen motorbikes, owned four cars, drove several small trucks and more tractors than I can remember. 

I've read the road code about a dozen times, half a dozen different editions.
I've been told by family on several occasions that I'm a good and cautious driver- keeping a safe distance, parking well, keeping at a safe speed, managing gear changes smoothly... but they can't believe I don't have my full yet.

The reason is simple. I don't know anyone with their full licence for two years in central Auckland or near me (near blockhouse bay) who can sit in the car when I drive to the test, and will wait while I do the restricted. 

Any volunteers or suggestions? I'm thinking maybe dial a driver might be worth looking into, but expensive. I've considered pulling up to random strangers and offering them ten bucks to come for a drive. I don't think I'm confident and ballsy enough for that though, haha!

I've also considered taxi drivers, but they would need someone to take them back to their cab. 

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  Reply # 749705 23-Jan-2013 16:52
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b0rg:The reason is simple. I don't know anyone with their full licence for two years in central Auckland or near me (near blockhouse bay) who can sit in the car when I drive to the test, and will wait while I do the restricted. 

Any volunteers or suggestions? I'm thinking maybe dial a driver might be worth looking into, but expensive. I've considered pulling up to random strangers and offering them ten bucks to come for a drive. I don't think I'm confident and ballsy enough for that though, haha!

I've also considered taxi drivers, but they would need someone to take them back to their cab. 


Try up K'rd, but I don't think she/he will be very attractive for $10 - but as you say, they only have to sit in the car.

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