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11448 posts

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  #829665 2-Jun-2013 15:28
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The linked article covers so much ground under different legislation and it is difficult to see exactly how it applies to obligations and arbitration process MTA members accept when joining the association. From there it depends if we are talking about MTA member or not.

Mad Scientist
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  #829718 2-Jun-2013 18:42
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regardless what MTA rules is not what a judge in the court of law rules ... if a judge rules you get your money, you are likely to get your money, if MTA rules you should become a millionaire and retire I doubt anyone has to follow!

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


507 posts

Ultimate Geek

  #829724 2-Jun-2013 18:43
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TheUngeek: You'd better call the MTA asap as they keep judging against dealers in these cases.

Isee youd rather write that than admit to being clearly wrong.

Oh well no skin off my nose, just didnt want joe public being misled by your earlier claims.

507 posts

Ultimate Geek

  #829725 2-Jun-2013 18:46
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TheUngeek: You can argue all you want. The fact is as reported in their own magazine that the MTA finds against the dealer if the car turns out be dodgy and sold via Trade Me. It's as simple as that. End of. Argue on with out me.
If need be, just keep rereading what I said until you understand.

May I just the glaringly obvious question which is, are you still in your teens?

Ive never seen someone be so blatantly wrong and have several people,some of whom are in the trade, point out to you that youre wrong and you just keep on like Comical Ali.....

The CGA does not apply to auctions of any kind end of story!

703 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #829871 3-Jun-2013 00:32
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Is Trade Me now an officially sanctioned, legally recognized auction now?

They did not used to be. Used to be you had to have a registered auctioneer to have an auction. Hence trademe did not qualify.

507 posts

Ultimate Geek

  #829981 3-Jun-2013 11:54
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Auctions and the ConsumerGuaranteesAct

28. At present the Consumer Guarantees Act excludes from coverage goods sold by auction or
competitive tender. Thisisthe only mode ofsale excluded from the Act’s coverage. It is unclear
why this decision wasmade butitis possible thatthe reasonsincluded:
- Auctions and tenders were generally business to business (for example livestock
auctionsto farmers)so were removed fromthe consumer context.
- Itisinappropriate forthe auctioneerto provide the guarantees.
- There should be a mechanism to have an ‘as is where is’ sale (i.e. no right of redress
postsale) and auctions and competitive tenders were seen as a suitablemechanism.

29. As noted in the Consumer Law Reform discussion paper, June 2010, a traditional auction does
not involve any negotiation between the buyer and seller. The onus is on the buyer to inspect
the itempriorto the auction to ascertain whetherthe itemmeetstheir needs.

30. This means of sale has a long history. It can be a useful way to shift goods in an efficient
manner. The price can also be lower than the normal market rate for sales not by auction
because the bidders are aware of the risks. Some second-hand products are not able to be sold
with any guarantee as to their working order and how long they may last. By providing that
auctions are not subject to future claims, vendors are able to confidently sell goods at lower
prices than might otherwise be the case, safe in the knowledge that down the track there are
no comebacks on the sold goods.

Online Trade Me style Auctions

31. The Consumer Guarantees Act was passed in 1993. Since that time online Trade Me style
auctions have become an increasingly popular means for businesses to sell their goods to
consumers. This has brought auctions very much into the consumer context. Over 15,000 New
Zealand businessessell on Trade Me and there are around 20 other online auction sitesin New
Zealand. In the case of online Trade Me style auctionsitis unclear whetherthey are auctions or
competitive tenders for the purposes of the Act and thus whether the Consumer Guarantees
Act applies. At present it is clear that the Consumer Guarantees Act applies to Trade Me sales
which are concluded using the “buy now” option but arguably not to Trade Me sales by a
bidding process.

32. Under the current law, the debate about whether online Trade Me style auctions are true
auctions of the type intended to be exempted from the Consumer Guarantees Act is based on
the definition of auction in the current Auctioneers Act. This requires people to be actually
physically present which is a key component ofselling by “outcry” which isrequired under the
Auctioneers Act definition of auction. The Consumer Guarantees Act does not define auction.
An online Trade Me style auction is also potentially covered by the exemption of competitive
tenders underthe ConsumerGuarantees Act. Thistermis not defined in the Act.
33. A particular problem with the lack of clarity about the application of the Consumer Guarantees
Act to online Trade Me style auctions is the inconsistency for consumer using such online
marketplacesif they make the final purchase by way of the Buy Now/Confirm Purchase button.

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