oh no! ... solid energy et al ... here we go again!

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NZtechfreak

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#767662 22-Feb-2013 13:58

BlueShift:
kiwitrc:
NZtechfreak:
surfisup1000: Also, many treaty settlements have been squandered in failed businesses and poor investments -- these are well publicized over the last few years.

My yes, aren't they just well publicized?

Strange you never see success stories for Iwi business and social enterprises (of which there are also many) publicized so well...

Dunno, Sealord seem to be held up as a shining example of how it can be done.

Tainui are definitely doing well with their property portfolio - The Base is a money printing machine for them...

Ngati Whatua also has extensive business interests that are doing very well.

Twitter: @nztechfreak
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Cambo

107 posts

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#767664 22-Feb-2013 14:01

NZtechfreak: Strange you never see success stories for Iwi business and social enterprises (of which there are also many) publicized so well...

Ngai Tahu seem to have done pretty well (compared to their peers anyway). Plenty of diversification going on, spreading their risk.
You don't see it trumpeted in the media, but their financial results are readily available.

DonGould

3892 posts

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#767672 22-Feb-2013 14:09

joker97: i don't mean to insult anyone .... perhaps i should'nt have verbalised my disappointment

i'm disappointed that the government saw solid energy as a base for creating a billion or so dollars (for whom to keep in their pocket is another matter), spent millions figuring out how to dissect the kidney out of the living organism, and the bombshell - hmm they are now in debt about half a billion quid.

i don't think that is small matter and i'm not insulting anyone

these are events that have happened

i guess yeah business failures are all part and parcel of life ... *sigh

Was someone offended here?

I know I wasn't.

From my point of view you expressed your observation of the space based on your understandings.

With respect to the Iwi, I think many would agree with you until you start to look closer and the social issues.

Yes, as others have agreed and pointed out, a number of early Iwi payments were just wasted. When was the last time you were given $10,000,000 dollars and spent it well?

Let's look at our IT industry for a second... one of the guys who built one of the providers that became TelstraClear was given $4 million for his share in the company, he went out and bought a $400,000 dollar sports car which he then promptly wrote off. Does that make the founder of a big part of the TelstraClear network an idiot which we shouldn't invest in?

The obvious answer is no. It just means he made a mistake and still had $3.6m left to do something well with.

Maori aren't to different. This 'cash rich' position is a bit new to them and they're learning.

Again, with respect to Solid Energy, they simply need to scale down and wait for the demand for energy to rise again.

It's going to take 20 years for the US to get it self back on its feet, if they can.

In the mean time, the rest of the world has to adjust.

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Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

DarthKermit

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#767785 22-Feb-2013 17:12

Cambo:
gzt:
A couple of years back there was some kind of study of NZ management which concluded NZ management was performing below many international indicators but particularly in people management and development of human resource.

I would agree with this. I think most NZ companies see their staff like cattle, and don't earnestly try to mould the people and grow them to be excellent in their positions. Employees end up just doing the bare minimum, and the company loses out on employee engagement. I am certain that this leads to the company being less effective in whatever they do, and also affects financial success.

Tell me about it. Where I work, we had an employee who had been there for 26 years. He left due to ill-health. And when he died last year, the GM didn't say a single word about him.

Recently when the same GM's brand-new PA lost her coffee cup after putting it in the staff room dishwasher, we all got an email (from the GM) about how much sentimental value this cup had to the PA.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

matisyahu

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#768664 25-Feb-2013 02:49

Klipspringer: And NZ debt per GDP and debt per capitia. We worse off than the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Actually the numbers there include public and private debt; when you purely look at the public debt we're ok for now but something needs to be done. As for private debt, until New Zealanders stop purchasing crap and treat their house as just that, a house, then things won't improve one iota.

As for Solid Energy, the company has always been a dog; it has been bailed out in the past and I'll guarantee you that they'll need to be bailed out going forward. IMHO they're better off liquidating the company, sell off the assets to pay the creditors and the remaining balance can be taken as a haircut by those holding IOU tickets Solid Energy racked up.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

MikeB4

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#768691 25-Feb-2013 08:02

Solid Energy should be left to close, no tax funded bail out. Coal is redundant energy source and very "dirty" energy source. If the Government feels compelled to use tax funds in the West Coast use them for venture capital to establish new sustainable businesses and environmentally safe business.

JimmyH

2886 posts

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#770093 25-Feb-2013 20:52

KiwiNZ: Solid Energy should be left to close, no tax funded bail out. Coal is redundant energy source and very "dirty" energy source. If the Government feels compelled to use tax funds in the West Coast use them for venture capital to establish new sustainable businesses and environmentally safe business.

No, coal isn't redundant or an anachronism. It's irreplaceable as an energy source in the short- to medium-term, and you also can't make steel without it.

The Government's decision should be taken on a commercial basis, and only commercial considerations should be taken into account. They have three broad options, and should retain expert advisors to pick between them:

1. don't bail the business, let it either find outside investors or fold.
2. bail the business and hold on to it as an income producing asset.
3. bail the business, and sell out as soon as possible.

They should pick whichever one is likely to maximse value (including minimise the loss) to the taxpayer. Businesses are inherently risky (see BNZ et al) and this is another reason why the government should get out of commercial investments where there aren't compelling public-policy reasons for ownership.

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