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3 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 114966 8-Mar-2013 16:44
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When I though everything was all smooth for a Saturday night's operation, it was not. A transaction of couple hundreds went missing and no print out receipt was found regardless how deep I dug into the trash bin. Brand storming for that transaction I could recall it is of following descriptions: cash out from ASB Visa Debit, inserted into pin pad, pin pad screened shows "remove card", no accepted or declined outcome printed, and worse of all cash was given out.

Further more I discovered this transaction had been assigned a transaction number like all others, hence I called paymark for support. After an prolonged waiting of so called technical investigation, I received feedback today that is 1) not in my favor; 2) makes me doubt what current technology can actually achieve in our life.

With all respect to our biggest eftpos line company in the country, the result of my request really makes me feel like a joke, so I'd became nasty and asked for a written report. The call centre people hesitated, once again told me: 

"During our investigation we can not find this transaction in our system at all, and in fact this transaction number you have is for an automatic logon that could occur during operation... ... I do not have therefore unable to provide the time this log on happened... ... since you can not supply a receipt either there is no other ways we could help you..."

In good faith I would this is all I deserve for been careless of conduct and entirely my own fault; however I really wonder how advanced today's technology is and why a more explicit feedback could not be given from the company. 

If anyone in this forum is willing and knowledgeable to share insights about eftpos terminal technology, feel free to contribute your thoughts. For me it is a rather expensive lesson to learn but it's always good to learn. Thank you. 

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  Reply # 776997 8-Mar-2013 16:56
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I'm still a little bit lost as to tyour scerio but guessing that a) you're a retailer and b) somebody attempted a transaction which was incomplete and probably initiated a merchant login to which c) a staff member handed out cash to the customer?

Sounds to me like there is nothing wrong with the system. I'm assuming you don't have integrated EFTPOS?



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 777017 8-Mar-2013 17:22
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I am a staff in a bar & pokie where people do large cash outs all the time. It is only a stand alone EFTPOS terminal. The system at that moment was not okay at all. Imaging one did all normal procedures for a cash out, pin pad showed "remove your card", customer did it, you turned around to count notes, came back, handed out cash, not noticing there is no eftpos receipt printed from terminal... ... It is tricky because the transaction is real and has a number assigned to it. But because this transaction at same time can not be found in the system (not even to locate its exact time or card number or amount), it then was defined as not a transaction but an automatic terminal logon (explained by the support staff saying it could happen at any point of time)... ... This is why I'd take the fact I am responsible for the loss; but still keen to know more about the terminal system. Hopefully there will be people out there who is willing to educate me. Thank you.

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  Reply # 777019 8-Mar-2013 17:27
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  Reply # 777020 8-Mar-2013 17:28
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Hi Joancy,

If you would like to list some questions, I will do my best to answer them. I work in the industry and may be able to help.

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  Reply # 777022 8-Mar-2013 17:36
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While it's unfortunate that this happened it really shows the issues with non integrated terminals. In the retail industry they're quite frankly a licence for staff to steal.

What exactly do you need to know about the terminal?

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  Reply # 777026 8-Mar-2013 17:47
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Reading Joancy's update I'm curious about it.

How does a transaction get assigned a number, and get those normal confirmation messages up to the point of "Please remove your card", but even after all that there is no transaction 'in the system' for support staff to retrieve?

If it gave the expected messages all the way to "please remove your card" I would also assume the entered transaction is complete and valid.

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  Reply # 777036 8-Mar-2013 18:05
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Not necessarily. Under normal terminal operations, once the transaction has been proceeded and the 'remove card' message shows on the terminal, it still returns an additional message. This could be a number of things including "ACCEPTED", "DECLINED" being the most common.

It is extremely unlikely that after the card was removed the terminal would simply return to the idle screen. In a non-integrated environment (excluding NFC transactions) the terminal specification dictates a receipt is printed with the transaction outcome.

However, if for some reason the transaction caused a malfunction, the standard procedure is to call the network and request they investigate the last transaction to determine whether it processed or not. The specification is designed not to finalise a transaction without being able to prove the outcome. This is a reason why terminals are forced to be inoperative if there is no paper loaded, and if a power failure was to occur then the transaction ceases until the terminal reboots and you can process again.

Every transaction is also given an ascending TRANS number. Bear in mind though that sometimes transactions that occur in the background, auto-logons, reversals etc. increment the number but wont print the "transaction"



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 777053 8-Mar-2013 19:21
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It is great to receive feedback. Overall if I can be more careful the entire drama would not have happened. In my situation there is no physical issues that will result in a declined transactions. By saying that I mean the phone is not in use, line connected, eftpos paper roll is not finished, & properly loaded. I barely think there is such odd coincidence where the terminal is performing auto logon and conducting a pending transaction simultaneously.

In my workplace the terminal is always logged on, we did not turn the power off when the shop closes. Hence there is no need for us to log on to the machine at start of the day.

At what situations will the terminal auto logon? And why does it need to auto logon?

I now understand each auto log on has been assigned a transaction number, but why is the system not be able to tell me the time of this auto logon? (I asked the paymark staff, and they said they don't have it)

Also at what situations (other than physical malfunction) the terminal will not print out transaction information? In fact before been told by the paymark staff today that transaction is an auto log other than what I'd claimed I thought it was more likely to be a transmission error.

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  Reply # 777061 8-Mar-2013 19:34
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Ok, you are saying "Remove card" is always displayed before "Accepted" or "Declined"?

From a customer point of view I pull the card out and next thing the retailer hands me the receipt. I guess these are integrated and from a customer point of view I've never looked at the terminal screen during this process.

As an unrelated aside, I've noticed many small dairies and petrol stations will hang onto the card for an eftpos (without chip) transaction until the transaction is complete. I assume this is because otherwise they find themselves chasing customers who are anticipating correctly or not and begin to walk off with the goods and the card before the transaction is complete. I wonder if these businesses will resist NFC adoption for this reason or if their customers will understand their need to hold NFC cards.

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  Reply # 777063 8-Mar-2013 19:46
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From memory, been a number of years since I used eft-pos, I'm sure there was a way to reprint last reciept.

i.e, if transcaction couldn't be read, or paper ran out while printing, would hit reprint.

Customer didn't get cash, until eftpos reciept put into till to check if till doesn't balance end of night.

over 10 years ago for me, but no reciept no cash. Also for cash out circled the amount on reciept and got customer to inital it.

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